From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Fri Aug 21 04:09:45 2009 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Fri, 21 Aug 2009 04:09:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1MeS08-0003Bf-W0 for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Fri, 21 Aug 2009 04:09:45 -0700 Received: from cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com ([75.180.132.122]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1MeS06-0003Aa-Gy for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Fri, 21 Aug 2009 04:09:44 -0700 Received: from chausie ([71.75.215.96]) by cdptpa-omta04.mail.rr.com with ESMTP id <20090821110935998.XHUH6077@cdptpa-omta04.mail.rr.com> for ; Fri, 21 Aug 2009 11:09:35 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by chausie (Postfix) with ESMTP id E5C863377 for ; Fri, 21 Aug 2009 07:09:33 -0400 (EDT) From: Pierre Abbat To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: proper pronunciation of apostrophe Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 07:09:24 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.6 (enterprise 0.20070907.709405) References: <20090821032239.GA12245@sdf.lonestar.org> <52a782220908210109yfd447efwa59a3a42d43d0269@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <52a782220908210109yfd447efwa59a3a42d43d0269@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200908210709.26500.phma@phma.optus.nu> X-archive-position: 2079 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: phma@phma.optus.nu Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners On Friday 21 August 2009 04:09:50 Alexandre Dezotti wrote: > i think the good names are 'lenis' and 'fortis' (see the most famous > english phonetics book, i don't remeber the author now, > unfortunately). I think I heard of "lenis" and "fortis" a lot later than "voiced" and "unvoiced". > since we are speaking about phonetics, how do you think a french > speaker should pronounce 'xr', or 'rx' ? It seems that 'x' represents > the unvoiced french 'r', so one should not use french 'r' in this > case. I use the Spanish erre in this environment (and ere or erre in most, but not all). For "xr" this ends up sounding like a voiceless simultaneous uvular and alveolar trill. For "rx" I pronounce them separately. But I learned to hear Spanish from my mother, so I can't answer for monolingual francophones. firxra tumxra firxra tumxra ... le xruki le ginxre xrixruba xu xrula cu xrani? ri'erxi'a tirxyxi'a ... rirxrxrazdani rirxyxrazdani (to la xrazdan .aierne rirxe toi) mu'omi'e pier.