From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Mon Aug 24 16:38:10 2009 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Mon, 24 Aug 2009 16:38:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Mfj73-00065x-PY for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Mon, 24 Aug 2009 16:38:10 -0700 Received: from mail-vw0-f179.google.com ([209.85.212.179]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Mfj6y-00064G-Lr for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Mon, 24 Aug 2009 16:38:09 -0700 Received: by vws9 with SMTP id 9so2204337vws.25 for ; Mon, 24 Aug 2009 16:37:58 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=b9NGgX8b8LR38+tgsSqTB92hkzTfwegUq+ZtE0UtFU8=; b=SxGq8F7pEIStevbf/d7zgqGS70qg4gdhRHKDwoZ+eM5nPYFbVeq19Qn+OhrxHuFGfG 9N7HAiz2cPSA0x9L1etH080DyUuSx1h+RKHGEOKEYuL8AT84QaDdpitSFJYbtu8UsFEy w5lZLrYiXShMF7zGZnYIuNFCxMLQ6JNbcOtLI= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=BXlA/58P9p443LkQo/dU6WehCVj3csH5i2KGrzMwcIBswEHPNuODksFGKoL8sJt1k8 cOWSuv80LN9FaRZ4pxqF9u6DsrEhcOb36ay/uSa8UkJHBXxLR6ezzIHsB5ZOurYMTwFM KdpAxJk5PWuDg3li8cZYgj8AEv2NMxKeV/pBs= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.220.18.136 with SMTP id w8mr6803333vca.46.1251157078367; Mon, 24 Aug 2009 16:37:58 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20090824222155.GA26713@sdf.lonestar.org> References: <95b2fb130908241456p6d89ee60y325e4e316fb58299@mail.gmail.com> <20090824222155.GA26713@sdf.lonestar.org> Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 19:37:58 -0400 Message-ID: <95b2fb130908241637h54f6288ci457ae336f9c7a41c@mail.gmail.com> Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: Distinguishing Type 3 and 4 fu'ivla From: "H. Felton" To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by Ecartis X-archive-position: 2099 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: fagricipni@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners On Mon, Aug 24, 2009 at 6:21 PM, Minimiscience wrote: > de'i li 24 pi'e 08 pi'e 2009 la'o fy. H. Felton .fy. cusku zoi skamyxatra. >> Is there a way to always distinguish between Type 3 and Type 4 >> fu'ivla?  "cidjrspageti" is a Type 3 fu'ivla based on Lojbanizing >> "spaghetti" to "spageti", and then attaching "cidj-" from the rafsi >> for "cidja" for "food" and an r-hyphen.  However, upon first >> encountering that word in text could it not also be a Type 3 fu'ivla >> based on a longer natural language word? > .skamyxatra > > Assuming you meant "could it not also be a Type 4 fu'ivla," yes, it could be > either, and there is no foolproof way to tell the two types apart.  Considering > that external knowledge is required in order to understand any type of > {fu'ivla} in the first place, I don't think this is much of a drawback. > > mu'omi'e .kamymecraijun. I'm still working on my learning program to help me with memorization, but I also thinking about a program that could _morphologically_ identify "words" in Lojban text. If I see "lenubrivla", the program could identify it as a multiple word, and split it in to "le nu brivla" -- _this_ program would not attempt to identify meaning. Given what you just said it seems that the catagories will have to be: "multiple word" (needs to be split), "cmavo", "gismu", "lujvo", "Type 4 fu'ivla", "possible Type 3 fu'ivla". Note at the level I am talking about the program will identify "kobra" as a gismu and "pa'ai" as a cmavo even though such valsi aren't defined in the vocabulary lists -- If I implement "look up", it will be after morphological identification; this also means that the program will identify "becrbai" as a lujvo (assuming I haven't make a mistake in generating a lujvo from those two rafsi); it could not be identified as illegal due to there being no rafsi "bec" until after "look up".