From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Mon Aug 24 21:46:28 2009 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Mon, 24 Aug 2009 21:46:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1MfnvP-0004ih-UC for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Mon, 24 Aug 2009 21:46:28 -0700 Received: from cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com ([75.180.132.120]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1MfnvK-0004hz-CI for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Mon, 24 Aug 2009 21:46:27 -0700 Received: from chausie ([71.75.215.96]) by cdptpa-omta04.mail.rr.com with ESMTP id <20090825044615707.UQGF6799@cdptpa-omta04.mail.rr.com> for ; Tue, 25 Aug 2009 04:46:15 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by chausie (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9DC2E5DFF for ; Tue, 25 Aug 2009 00:46:14 -0400 (EDT) From: Pierre Abbat To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: Distinguishing Type 3 and 4 fu'ivla Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 00:46:09 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.6 (enterprise 0.20070907.709405) References: <95b2fb130908241456p6d89ee60y325e4e316fb58299@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <95b2fb130908241456p6d89ee60y325e4e316fb58299@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200908250046.11171.phma@phma.optus.nu> X-archive-position: 2106 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: phma@phma.optus.nu Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners On Monday 24 August 2009 17:56:15 H. Felton wrote: > Is there a way to always distinguish between Type 3 and Type 4 > fu'ivla? "cidjrspageti" is a Type 3 fu'ivla based on Lojbanizing > "spaghetti" to "spageti", and then attaching "cidj-" from the rafsi > for "cidja" for "food" and an r-hyphen. However, upon first > encountering that word in text could it not also be a Type 3 fu'ivla > based on a longer natural language word? If it looks like a type-3 fu'ivla, it is a type-3 fu'ivla. Once I was figuring out what a turndun could be called in Lojban. I tried "turndunu", but that is a type-3 with rafsi "tur", thus some kind of structure, not a noisemaker. I decided on "turdunu" instead. If it could be a type-3 with 3-letter rafsi and a type-3 with 4-letter rafsi, it is a type-3 with 4-letter rafsi. Were it not so, some combinations of gismu and borrowed part would be impossible. So a "curnlibi" is a libi worm, and so is a "curnrlibi"; it's not a rlibi worm. (I just made that up.) One corner case is a rafsi ending in "r" followed by a foreign part beginning "tc", "ts", "dj", or "dz". For example, "lerndjamo" is invalid, so it has to be "lerldjamo", which is therefore a type-3, not a type-4. (It means an individual letter in the Korean alphabet.) None of this, though, affects whether a word is a valid fu'ivla. Pierre