From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Wed Aug 26 04:03:31 2009 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Wed, 26 Aug 2009 04:03:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1MgGHq-0006OO-P7 for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Wed, 26 Aug 2009 04:03:30 -0700 Received: from ey-out-1920.google.com ([74.125.78.146]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1MgGHo-0006OF-0s for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Wed, 26 Aug 2009 04:03:30 -0700 Received: by ey-out-1920.google.com with SMTP id 3so11869eyh.36 for ; Wed, 26 Aug 2009 04:03:26 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :from:date:message-id:subject:to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=NFumgY3Y1ZQOK5fZcny1qOfsQJNTCOG1jvkmZqm2ksM=; b=E0R1imVpdTY/zXXT6yCvZz+DqAtyJPPgPZ7m372C6+cOxs57mwdz5LgzfAyP0cV43v LQsrxsJuN62bgqfw3w54FOaPKmMSQYpLNXJAixq53Y18YuzC5NGtFruYYXvRUZDqZWNs GnzIYH1KWKeTEMFAK1/3rEDjs9/02H3jFhJx4= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=VNvQRIHjBJjUVvkLtwFEdOIePPQ8c+nGDBeQh4d8fYjz9g1afhWUzzYhGYGKFs41X1 y8ku8fYTUatj/hcYqB6aY/bhsM5yt8ZbjbKyNJrhIKe/aaIr5UvZBtBNhHvyw8HmR5A4 VMVXpDI/dxCCs0xnR/vPfw3qBMZgnJsKrj5Nc= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.210.127.13 with SMTP id z13mr7949265ebc.85.1251284606454; Wed, 26 Aug 2009 04:03:26 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <71103.7501.qm@web30403.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <71103.7501.qm@web30403.mail.mud.yahoo.com> From: Dmitry Shintyakov Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 15:03:06 +0400 Message-ID: <8900cc410908260403x320d193bj42547c114c519ecb@mail.gmail.com> Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: The coming of the ship To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by Ecartis X-archive-position: 2114 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: shintyakov@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners 2009/8/26 Tom Gysel : > kahlil gibran's "the coming of the ship" > is translated as "le nu selklama le bloti" > > how does that differ from: > le nu bloti cu klama = the coming of the ship I guess, you forgot to insert "le" here. Your sentence is correct, but it parses to: {le (nu bloti)} cu klama which means something like "The event-of-being-a-ship comes (or goes)". Probably, you intended say "le nu le bloti cu klama", which is effectively has the same meaning as the previously mentioned "le nu selkalma le bloti" > is it about this: in the first one, emphasis is on the > destination of that coming? > (because if I say: "the coming of the boat", I mean > the arrival of it right HERE, not just the coming anywhere) Probably, yes. Meaning is exactly the same, but emphasis may be different. As far as I know, CLL does not specifies, how word order is connected to emphasis. (Though there are explicit ways to emphasize a word, see ba'e). Thus, interpretation of the word order is up to you. I guess, that in this case, translator jut tried to make Lojban word order closer to the English original.