From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Thu Sep 03 14:35:09 2009 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Thu, 03 Sep 2009 14:35:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1MjJxV-0002mK-Bu for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Thu, 03 Sep 2009 14:35:09 -0700 Received: from mail-vw0-f193.google.com ([209.85.212.193]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1MjJxR-0002j0-GH for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Thu, 03 Sep 2009 14:35:09 -0700 Received: by vws31 with SMTP id 31so322440vws.28 for ; Thu, 03 Sep 2009 14:34:59 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=yhdAAyfz8kY6AWeHWx4ZDZhlh5qLTC67J9kHSHLg+eI=; b=YAOcwOZRm1e1b39QmEw8Dwxv5ZztPP91ToZ86LSmXj1lReHB6uEu9TM6y3uluLgvqP JUHECo+BF0lzVo8ylA5daco0ZFZVHKoHkgXSCS5DJgyBiCHOXsu4IlY3YcKevhCdUEal HzLz1opcH0BUkKogJy2tkAqJPiyKs0YUSJXBU= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=envZ9qZMH6j9orU+0eh6w1GIsPiw0MI9pQAke+f1WOM7wPB67swgvEG18pGS2eK21a 7nCWzhuW42FKqum8jvs2BCGngAxp8L7chKBbsQIPGn98hz0zucW3HtFQpKCUiMavzX7N Fl+vJpKANB9KEUjG5Lg+tbzIMUEWLDBR1cCgU= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.220.89.77 with SMTP id d13mr13917228vcm.91.1252013286601; Thu, 03 Sep 2009 14:28:06 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <71550650909031420p25b97e94nb4a9249c27954af0@mail.gmail.com> References: <5715b9300909031338k5c931840x1c394e6a40a077b3@mail.gmail.com> <71550650909031411g5eb337c5mba93e389385a6929@mail.gmail.com> <71550650909031420p25b97e94nb4a9249c27954af0@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2009 17:28:06 -0400 Message-ID: <5715b9300909031428m69202f71qd8bf358a96c65dde@mail.gmail.com> Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: "don't you have somewhere to be?" From: Luke Bergen To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016363b81f833b2da0472b30f89 X-archive-position: 2184 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: lukeabergen@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners --0016363b81f833b2da0472b30f89 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 hmm, I think in this case the difference is something of anger (as you observed) and also something of making it a rhetorical question. Almost as though the root question is really "I know you have somewhere to be, so why are you not behaving as though that were true". how about ".o'onai xu je'a bapli lenu do klama kau"? On Thu, Sep 3, 2009 at 5:20 PM, Yoav Nir wrote: > Or maybe {bilga} > .o'onai xu do bilga lenu klama le datselzva > > > On Fri, Sep 4, 2009 at 12:11 AM, Yoav Nir wrote: > >> What does it mean in English? >> Lojban does not make a distinction between "do you" and "don't you" or >> between "is it true" and "isn't it true", so to express the feeling, we >> should probably add {o'onai}. >> >> So apart from the emotional part, we have "isn't it true that you should >> go somewhere else" >> >> I'm not sure how to translate "somewhere else", maybe {drata selzvati} = >> other location? {datselzva}? >> >> "should" is harder. I don't agree with your {nitcu}. that means x1 needs >> x2 for some purpose. Using this as have to, is English idiom, therefore >> malglico. I think bapli is more appropriate, but maybe there's a better >> option. How about: >> >> .o'onai xu bapli lenu do klama le datselzva >> >> On Thu, Sep 3, 2009 at 11:38 PM, Luke Bergen wrote: >> >>> How exactly would one translate that idea. I was thinking "xu do seklama >>> nitcu" but would that be "do you have a need to be at a destination" or "do >>> you have a need for a destination"? Maybe "xu do zvati nitcu"? Of course, >>> you could break it out semantically and do something long like "xu do je'a >>> nitcu lo nu do zvati lo seklama" but that's just long. Any ideas? >>> >> >> > --0016363b81f833b2da0472b30f89 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable hmm, I think in this case the difference is something of anger (as you obse= rved) and also something of making it a rhetorical question.=A0 Almost as t= hough the root question is really "I know you have somewhere to be, so= why are you not behaving as though that were true".

how about ".o'onai xu je'a bapli lenu do klama kau"?<= br>
On Thu, Sep 3, 2009 at 5:20 PM, Yoav Nir = <yoav.nir@gmail.= com> wrote:
= Or maybe {bilga}

.o'onai xu do bilga lenu klama le d= atselzva


O= n Fri, Sep 4, 2009 at 12:11 AM, Yoav Nir <yoav.nir@gmail.com> wrote:
= What does it mean in English?

Lojban does not make a dis= tinction between "do you" and "don't you" or betwee= n "is it true" and "isn't it true", so to express t= he feeling, we should probably add {o'onai}.

So apart from the emotional part, we have "isn'= ;t it true that you should go somewhere else"

I'm not sure how to translate "somewhere else", maybe {drata= selzvati} =3D other location? {datselzva}?

"should" is harder. I don't agree with yo= ur {nitcu}. that means x1 needs x2 for some purpose. Using this as have to,= is English idiom, therefore malglico. I think bapli is more appropriate, b= ut maybe there's a better option. How about:=A0

.o'onai xu bapli lenu do klama le datselzva

On Thu, Sep 3, 2009 at 11:38 PM, Luke Berge= n <lukeabergen@gmail.com> wrote:
How exactly would= one translate that idea.=A0 I was thinking "xu do seklama nitcu"= but would that be "do you have a need to be at a destination" or= "do you have a need for a destination"?=A0 Maybe "xu do zva= ti nitcu"?=A0 Of course, you could break it out semantically and do so= mething long like "xu do je'a nitcu lo nu do zvati lo seklama"= ; but that's just long.=A0 Any ideas?



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