From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Sun Sep 06 14:22:49 2009 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Sun, 06 Sep 2009 14:22:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1MkPCC-0006Ix-Mb for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Sun, 06 Sep 2009 14:22:48 -0700 Received: from ey-out-1920.google.com ([74.125.78.147]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1MkPC6-0006Hg-Nl for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Sun, 06 Sep 2009 14:22:48 -0700 Received: by ey-out-1920.google.com with SMTP id 3so817841eyh.36 for ; Sun, 06 Sep 2009 14:22:40 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=/OqnHIraY8HxnfIsK8rTCE9CaqN6GXAs7eTNwCy7PNw=; b=Ye9mZu0viPj276eN+dTntD/vlFcqPDeujiU/bxdgGmcWfvnFKIdE+OkPAWGhxyuxOA Gl8wL6HdVr8clewX3Ydd5entJ3e6N5UKQB4xLWrJL3gODIoKATvNeZHCJAV9Hrmf67g/ iRpWR1jg3n2ygEPMBsEPxiMH/7DMxt3tjpGVM= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=javbB1lzuX2Iuj21CRdpBcqo2ORw55HZdhuBhnI4m8odh8kWC7hZNVUJSn7wUrlwwd vTB4hjq7LkNmPQRekHLlCH/5bypP8Ym78x/rbdBefiwaaRqjXlRv+ea0f3X/pIiVAN50 ZVBR/NHxa26RCZPVYcxiHXNaDkOATsywmyMEw= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.211.155.19 with SMTP id h19mr859377ebo.48.1252272160845; Sun, 06 Sep 2009 14:22:40 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <9ada8ecd0909061413p69ee8803m6fb7160096c9378b@mail.gmail.com> References: <9ada8ecd0909060036m5027ae8h123217ef081c4bd0@mail.gmail.com> <925d17560909060711p19f4dba5vb1eb94dc877bebba@mail.gmail.com> <3E01A143-FB24-4D76-A9DB-0D6AA3065321@choi.name> <200909061340.09471.phma@phma.optus.nu> <9ada8ecd0909061413p69ee8803m6fb7160096c9378b@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 7 Sep 2009 00:22:40 +0300 Message-ID: <9ada8ecd0909061422m3206b739ta40225a89066696c@mail.gmail.com> Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: A tanru question From: Squark Rabinovich To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=00504502ca874f300d0472ef552f X-archive-position: 2220 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: top.squark@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners --00504502ca874f300d0472ef552f Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Oops I meant *l*u'i ci loi nanmu cu simxu lo nu damba*Also, the correct way to say "three groups of men fight within each other" is ci lo'i nanmu cu simxu lo nu damba * On Mon, Sep 7, 2009 at 12:13 AM, Squark Rabinovich wr= ote: > Modulo the fact that strictly speaking we need *lu'i mi'o ctuca simxu . *= Jorge > Llamb=EDas thinks that we can get away with using masses to mean sets. > However, consider the following example, from my mail about xorlo: lu'i c= i > loi nanmu simxu lo nu damba . If I understand xorlo correctly, this means= "three > groups of men fight against each other", where "each other" means between > the groups, not within them. Suppose we drop the *lu'i* . The result is c= i > loi nanmu simxu lo nu damba . If we allow substituting masses into the > first place of *sixmu* , this might mean "three groups of men fight withi= n > each other", that is, each group fights within itself. Thus an ambiguity > results. Maybe in simple unambiguous cases like mi'o ctuca simxu we can > stretch the rules a bit. > > > On Sun, Sep 6, 2009 at 9:24 PM, Joshua Choi wrote: > >> Ah! I see; thanks! >> >> >> On 6 September 2009, at 10:40 AM, Pierre Abbat wrote: >> >> On Sunday 06 September 2009 13:32:07 Joshua Choi wrote: >>> >>>> A tiny question on tanru: for the bridi "mi'o simxu lo nu ctuca" ("We >>>> teach one another"), if I wanted to use a tanru to say that in a more >>>> ambiguous but shorter way, would I say "mi'o simxu ctuca"? Or do I >>>> have to switch simxu's places or something? >>>> >>> >>> mi'o ctuca simxu >>> >>> mu'o >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> > --00504502ca874f300d0472ef552f Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Oops I meant lu'i ci loi nanmu = cu simxu lo nu damba
Also, the corr= ect way to say "three groups of men fight within each other" is ci lo'i nanmu cu simxu lo nu damba

On Mon, Sep 7, 2009 at 12:13 AM, = Squark Rabinovich <top.squark@gmail.com> wrote:
Modulo the fact that strictly speaking we need lu'i= mi'o ctuca simxu .=A0<= /i>Jorge Llamb=EDas thinks that we can get away with using masses to= mean sets. However, consider the following example, from my mail about xor= lo:=A0lu&= #39;i ci loi nanmu simxu lo nu damba=A0. If I understand xorlo correctly, this means=A0"three groups of men fight against ea= ch other", where "each other" means between the groups, not = within them. Suppose we drop the lu'i=A0. The result is=A0ci loi nanmu si= mxu lo nu damba=A0. If we a= llow substituting masses into the first place of sixmu=A0, this migh= t mean "three groups of men fight within each other", that is, ea= ch group fights within itself. Thus an ambiguity results. Maybe in simple u= nambiguous cases like=A0mi'o c= tuca simxu=A0we can stretch the rules a bit.


On Sun, Sep 6, 2009 at 9:24 PM, Joshua Choi = <joshua@choi.name> wrote:
Ah! I see; thanks!


On 6 September 2009, at 10:40 AM, Pierre Abbat wrote:

On Sunday 06 September 2009 13:32:07 Joshua Choi wrote:
A tiny question on tanru: for the bridi "mi'o simxu lo nu ctuca&qu= ot; ("We
teach one another"), if I wanted to use a tanru to say that in a more<= br> ambiguous but shorter way, would I say "mi'o simxu ctuca"? Or= do I
have to switch simxu's places or something?

mi'o ctuca simxu

mu'o









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