From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Mon Sep 07 10:00:23 2009 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Mon, 07 Sep 2009 10:00:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1MkhZn-0007Yl-3G for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Mon, 07 Sep 2009 10:00:23 -0700 Received: from mail-yw0-f192.google.com ([209.85.211.192]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1MkhZi-0007Vb-Qa for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Mon, 07 Sep 2009 10:00:22 -0700 Received: by ywh30 with SMTP id 30so4160400ywh.25 for ; Mon, 07 Sep 2009 10:00:12 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=t1J34dqaRhZboX5n+FdaY9s5dU0uvV+Ll45tStKGkeE=; b=ogYHvAa5JD1U69Kt+jnrGnPZq1cOaf1Z4Bc9d7VS2/dWpkaVq0slZc0UwzHP8fT1ih mGsz9iAATYi/P2qL4S9VTh0vcvIMo+o3MsM+Q0c6XT2NDsdJcHpOnN5voHcdkVjJn291 3rNvfvVwVGb3aum1tEhrStqZkeU8iMzqL2yD0= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=d09sAxpdHtdCo3qh9hCMaCp6/g5WwIbfev90jEoPBo435GiOjkknwP7rRBoc+P5wum YWCZ+NLwJUJoAiTFSjMJxrEipYNY/R/MpT3cYB9czr1iSRkAbN+kZz5Rx1962nlRzjR3 hH650ynDeMr3n+lrgCMldUEyiI+uOCT8Z0dvY= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.150.117.25 with SMTP id p25mr24306314ybc.139.1252342812528; Mon, 07 Sep 2009 10:00:12 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Mon, 7 Sep 2009 13:00:12 -0400 Message-ID: <96f789a60909071000m7efdb840kcb37646a3cd5c7c5@mail.gmail.com> Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: let us From: Michael Turniansky To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by Ecartis X-archive-position: 2232 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: mturniansky@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners On Sun, Sep 6, 2009 at 12:17 PM, wrote: > In a message dated 9/6/2009 09:51:40 Eastern Daylight Time, > selckiku@gmail.com writes: >  It can be even more useful to reassign "mi", which allows you > to use the whole attitudinal palette to paint anyone's voice: > > mi'e gerku > Speaking for a dog. > > > This just seems like a wrong interpretation of "mi'e" to me.  My > understanding of "mi'e" is that whatever follows it is a way of naming the > speaker who says "mi'e".  Thus "mi'e gerku" means "I'm called Gerku". Actually, it doesn't mean that. That can only be "mi'e la gerku". If you are not using a cmevla after a COI/DOI, it means that you are actually identifying a member of that category, so the la becomes necessary if you are using a brivla for a name (like "gejyspa") when using COI/DOI (admittedly, most people informally drop it in conversations with me, but strictly speaking, it is necessary, unless I really am a rootish plant by some standard, which I'm not). So mi'e gerku means "I am a dog, and 'mi' will refer to me, the dog who is communicating". Whether selckiku could use it as he specifies is a more interesting question, to which I'd probably be inclined to answer "no". He is asserting he is _a_ dog, but whether he could specify he is a dog other than himself, might be a bit trickier.... > > "Speaking for a dog", OTOH, means that you are giving voice or representing > someone/something else, namely some dog, and has nothing to do with giving a > name to the speaker. > > Can someone else shed more light on this? > > stevo