From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Tue Sep 08 13:54:11 2009 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Tue, 08 Sep 2009 13:54:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Ml7hb-0002c7-I6 for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Tue, 08 Sep 2009 13:54:11 -0700 Received: from mail-fx0-f211.google.com ([209.85.220.211]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Ml7hY-0002bO-2Q for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Tue, 08 Sep 2009 13:54:11 -0700 Received: by fxm7 with SMTP id 7so2734809fxm.34 for ; Tue, 08 Sep 2009 13:54:01 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:sender:received:in-reply-to :references:date:x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=OpLwVXqdHBqsBUOUJ5rJVvYpvrFUoeYDTqFHy1xTdSg=; b=Ubxu8YRMGDNXmS/YOaXa/gKlc+IFVfhCtQZO1FeLCHwPcE0aJ0cn64QLjyss0Fb96P T4fU98AKsgaLXm63uy5AuhsICWvTgsmEQ0BXKEDhyCg6mvq/zEYdFvAhSikRVrfJss8v oyvINhNsynu8NyIrBhpIHIFI98ntDBALSSszA= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; b=To9ly1QXZY0hGoSy0HIa+K6bE0o3kv4iVytVhvSnjCVckeX71qX2ZaNCsbBYzrHKia /31zkpPXd6Z4cYBUiM5KxowrKrXYbVGEZxuH4XecL6T2jeWFs3DaZhA7i4BrZBknvEAJ ivKjk6n4h0kXaErm0EK6lRYjxG2FwNGwmdOEo= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.239.139.196 with SMTP id u4mr1616217hbu.114.1252443241476; Tue, 08 Sep 2009 13:54:01 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <96f789a60909071000m7efdb840kcb37646a3cd5c7c5@mail.gmail.com> <9ada8ecd0909081255m2215bd02oae0eb2cb8949463e@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2009 16:54:01 -0400 X-Google-Sender-Auth: 318d2103cde64505 Message-ID: <12d58c160909081354w350f49d7p195fd2e53959844b@mail.gmail.com> Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: let us From: "komfo,amonan" To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001485f6da6e8273c70473172a07 X-archive-position: 2255 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: komfoamonan@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners --001485f6da6e8273c70473172a07 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Tue, Sep 8, 2009 at 4:42 PM, Ivo Doko wrote: > I always thought "let us" (or, more commonly, "let's") was a way to > say first-person plural imperative of verbs in English. For example, > "let's go" - first-person plural imperative of the verb "to go". > I think that's just because that's how it's explained in the grammars of (some) Indo-European languages. "Let's go", "Allons", "V=C3=A1monos" -- the= y're all referred to as imperatives when you learn these languages' grammars. I don't think the first-person imperative & second-person imperative align semantically, however. When you say "Get out of here", you usually mean to command the listener ({ko cliva}). When you say "Let's get out of here", yo= u usually mean to suggest a course of action toward which you're already inclined ({.e'u mi'o cliva}). It could be a command, in which case somethin= g like {ko mi kansa lo nu cliva} or {ko joi mi cliva} might be good translations. mu'o mi'e komfo,amonan --001485f6da6e8273c70473172a07 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Tue, Sep 8, 2009 at 4:42 PM, Ivo Doko <ivo.doko@gmail.com= > wrote:
I always thought "let us" (or, more commonly, "let's&quo= t;) was a way to
say first-person plural imperative of verbs in English. For example,
"let's go" - first-person plural imperative of the verb "= ;to go".

I think that's just because that= 's how it's explained in the grammars of (some) Indo-European langu= ages. "Let's go", "Allons", "V=C3=A1monos"= ; -- they're all referred to as imperatives when you learn these langua= ges' grammars. I don't think the first-person imperative & seco= nd-person imperative align semantically, however. When you say "Get ou= t of here", you usually mean to command the listener ({ko cliva}). Whe= n you say "Let's get out of here", you usually mean to sugges= t a course of action toward which you're already inclined ({.e'u mi= 'o cliva}). It could be a command, in which case something like {ko mi = kansa lo nu cliva} or {ko joi mi cliva} might be good translations.

mu'o mi'e komfo,amonan

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