From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Wed Sep 09 12:05:46 2009 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Wed, 09 Sep 2009 12:05:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1MlSUD-0004WK-IV for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Wed, 09 Sep 2009 12:05:45 -0700 Received: from ol.freeshell.org ([192.94.73.20] helo=sdf.lonestar.org) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1MlSUA-0004Vj-Eb for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Wed, 09 Sep 2009 12:05:45 -0700 Received: from sdf.lonestar.org (IDENT:jwodder@iceland.freeshell.org [192.94.73.5]) by sdf.lonestar.org (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id n89J5diQ013549 for ; Wed, 9 Sep 2009 19:05:40 GMT Received: (from jwodder@localhost) by sdf.lonestar.org (8.14.3/8.12.8/Submit) id n89J5dfV002695 for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Wed, 9 Sep 2009 19:05:39 GMT Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2009 19:05:39 +0000 From: Minimiscience To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: lojban for beginners Message-ID: <20090909190536.GA804@sdf.lonestar.org> Mail-Followup-To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org References: <9DE5DB0988ED6C448E606734F5030D381BED8379@bbcmbmx01.blackpool.gov.uk> <52a782220909090715l1d9204bfy78d8ab0028991b38@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <52a782220909090715l1d9204bfy78d8ab0028991b38@mail.gmail.com> Organization: SDF Public Access UNIX System User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.19 (2009-01-05) X-archive-position: 2272 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: minimiscience@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners de'i li 09 pi'e 09 pi'e 2009 la'o fy. Alexandre Dezotti .fy. cusku zoi skamyxatra. > What is demeaning is having always the same examples. > It's not diminishing sexism in any way, on the contrary, sexism is a > fact of the whole society and not just a personal choice. One cannot > just say "well, you could think yourself about some woman carrying a > piano", this kind of behaviour just tries to deny the public > acceptance and the innate sexism nature of the society. The aim is not > making people fuzzy inside, it is rather avoiding to perpetuate the > sexism in the minds within our cultural expressions. .skamyxatra So your complaint is that the examples fail to go against the status quo of language textbook examples? You wish to practice reverse discrimination in favour of non-stereotypical examples? Rather than complaining about pre-existing works, I think it would be a far better idea for you to create your own version of *Lojban for Beginners* in which the example sentences are as non-stereotypical, counter-cultural, and generally revolutionary as you want them to be. It is better for the Lojban corpus, and almost any corpus, to have its diversity develop naturally from different expressions of ideas than to impose artificial restrictions against things which, in a truly diverse setting, would be accepted without question. mu'omi'e .kamymecraijun. -- ne'i le vo'a zdani be bu'u la rliex. la noi morsi .ktulxus. senva denpa