From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Wed Sep 09 16:46:56 2009 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Wed, 09 Sep 2009 16:46:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1MlWsJ-0007wL-Rz for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Wed, 09 Sep 2009 16:46:56 -0700 Received: from mail-fx0-f211.google.com ([209.85.220.211]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1MlWsE-0007vg-Hx for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Wed, 09 Sep 2009 16:46:55 -0700 Received: by fxm7 with SMTP id 7so3513398fxm.34 for ; Wed, 09 Sep 2009 16:46:44 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:sender:received:in-reply-to :references:date:x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=JBkEx0vihgjtvFoxOPfJX5nZOPsq0Rtk9jjC82U84jc=; b=LgkO+IuF6bSw8Rd00R1BQbw5OCUwqwlt1picJYjlETuIkz6Gd1dN/QV6sO2pl/IVfb ynEE142r64B1j0rT+7dV2kor0IoIUXHLyU5kmh/9NVnrvZOMF5Fus4EeEdWnyCoWswWI ZUbMaSE/DEyRgoxmA1tyeFXDUeKODc2nY0Axs= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; b=TYpV+GT+1W0e9cttZBoy/n//nsunJTfTeN26ssNocqsOOoDojYCKahKYyFDTp3FuuV onj/I0or3Pan/tUTevWlu/y8lvoIPwKntbHAh+DJpVNUE0zTJyhMIUtIlacZI4Lmr47k t0FMvJU6CqJbBj4/shA9qHmJkqtYMlqtoOxBU= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.223.143.79 with SMTP id t15mr868796fau.6.1252540004221; Wed, 09 Sep 2009 16:46:44 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <5715b9300909091437q4332a9fesa704a560f9f08657@mail.gmail.com> References: <96f789a60909071000m7efdb840kcb37646a3cd5c7c5@mail.gmail.com> <9ada8ecd0909081255m2215bd02oae0eb2cb8949463e@mail.gmail.com> <12d58c160909081354w350f49d7p195fd2e53959844b@mail.gmail.com> <4de8c3930909081548i78f90850w68cfcb69aecbf4e7@mail.gmail.com> <9ada8ecd0909091353g5c75c195tae9d36a4212edd99@mail.gmail.com> <9ada8ecd0909091415i58a0b794h38d98132c6861d88@mail.gmail.com> <5715b9300909091437q4332a9fesa704a560f9f08657@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 01:46:44 +0200 X-Google-Sender-Auth: 4ef67900e926d6d0 Message-ID: <4de8c3930909091646h3490d436g8c7a8ee9dda3589@mail.gmail.com> Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: let us From: tijlan To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by Ecartis X-archive-position: 2282 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: jbotijlan@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners 2009/9/9 Luke Bergen : > Now that I think about it, how can one command ones self to do something? > One can express intention, determination to do a thing, or desire (all of > which are expressible through attitudinals), but what would it mean to > express the imperative {ko} to ones self? In that case, one's self is objectified and made a listener, to which the *usual* deictic class of {ko} (the listener) will refer. > Furthermore, {do} means "the listener" not necessarily "you over there".  So > could {ko klama} mean "let's go" if context makes sense that I'm talking > about "us"?  For instance: {mi'o nitcu lo ka zvati vu .i ko klama}. I think that could be the case. > Given this context, couldn't {ko klama} mean what we typically mean when we say > "let's go"? One obvious problem would then be that {ko} itself doesn't specify which deictic class (speaker/listener/other) it is referring to in a given instance. So we would have to expect some either contextual or verbal setting for the reference if we are to avoid ambiguity. For the verbal solution, we might use GOI such as {po'u} or, as Selckiku mentioned, {doi}: ko po'u mi'o klama ko doi mi'o klama I also happen to think we should be able to express every conceivable type of {ko} by combining any sumti with {pe'u}: (me & you) Let's go! --> mi'o pe'u klama (you) Go! --> do pe'u klama (me) Go! --> mi pe'u klama (y'all and the ship and that small swimming thing) Be destroyed! --> daspo fu'e pe'u do'o joi lo bloti joi lo ca'o cmalu je limna fu'o Apparently the last one is wordy, but that's what i can imagine as one way of disambiguating the target of an imperative expression. And of course extra attitudinals would be available to further specify the sense of the expression: e'a, e'e, e'i, e'o, e'u, ei ...