From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Thu Sep 17 02:44:47 2009 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Thu, 17 Sep 2009 02:44:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1MoDXj-0005ZM-3b for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Thu, 17 Sep 2009 02:44:47 -0700 Received: from sabre-wulf.nvg.ntnu.no ([129.241.210.67]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1MoDXd-0005XF-U9 for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Thu, 17 Sep 2009 02:44:46 -0700 Received: from hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no (unknown [IPv6:2001:700:300:2000:2a0:c9ff:feab:76e2]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by sabre-wulf.nvg.ntnu.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id C7CE794783 for ; Thu, 17 Sep 2009 11:44:02 +0200 (CEST) Received: from hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no (8.13.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id n8H9i2Rs006661 for ; Thu, 17 Sep 2009 11:44:02 +0200 Received: (from arj@localhost) by hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no (8.13.8/8.13.1/Submit) id n8H9hxZE006660 for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Thu, 17 Sep 2009 11:43:59 +0200 Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 11:43:59 +0200 From: Arnt Richard Johansen To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: gusni Message-ID: <20090917094359.GJ2685@nvg.org> References: <5a3750120909160909p69600a96pe4a6ebd0bb8c621b@mail.gmail.com> <916765.91562.qm@web30407.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <916765.91562.qm@web30407.mail.mud.yahoo.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.1i X-NVG-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-NVG-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-MailScanner-From: arj@nvg.ntnu.no Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by Ecartis X-archive-position: 2357 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: arj@nvg.org Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners On Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 02:14:04AM -0700, Tom wrote: > It does feel like an awkward x1 place. After all, what is the 'energy' > of light? 'Light' itself of course, light IS energy. So probably the > best way to fill the x1 is with 'lo gusni' (as in: "lo gusni cu gusni > lo mi flira" - the light shines on my face) but that seems ridiculous. It does indeed. That is why we would most often elide the x1, since there is no reason to specify it: gusni lo mi flira > We can fill the x1 with properties of the light, which has been done so > far (lo kandi, lo xunre), but they're not the energy itself, there > indeed just properties. Yes, they are the energy itself. "lo kandi" is something that is dim, not dimness itself. "lo xunre" is something that is red, not redness itself. > [...] Maybe "lo selnavni cu ga'u gusni mi lo tubnu" neon from above illumines me from tubes (in which I'm not sure whether neon isn't also a property) ("se navni" is a type of gas, which is an abstraction and not a thing, but that is a different point.) "lo navni cu ga'u gusni mi lo tubnu" doesn't work either, because in actuality neon emits light, but in this example you are asserting that it _is_ light. > Maybe we're talking about wavelenghts here. Not really. We're talking about a relationship between light, the thing that is illuminated/shone upon by the light, and the thing that produces the light. -- Arnt Richard Johansen http://arj.nvg.org/ Hvis jeg *vil* skrive til *den* plassen i minnet, så *skal* jeg skrive til *den* plassen i minnet. Det er derfor jeg foretrekker assembler. -- Ingulf Helland