From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Sun Nov 01 14:26:32 2009 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Sun, 01 Nov 2009 14:26:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1N4isa-0000g3-4k for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Sun, 01 Nov 2009 14:26:32 -0800 Received: from mail-bw0-f215.google.com ([209.85.218.215]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1N4isT-0000em-R8 for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Sun, 01 Nov 2009 14:26:31 -0800 Received: by bwz7 with SMTP id 7so5778458bwz.26 for ; Sun, 01 Nov 2009 14:26:18 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:sender:received:in-reply-to :references:date:x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=i6Ei2vcYAUIS/sMzhpfqqCTFCfKUiYxxVHTOhQ+fHgk=; b=AgIvpyBj75GUHPghFSHArRD8DmUTvpeHRlNPDbQnIWeoy/dECxlFa2fqtCskGGX/UV DXu1UDsyjBYfEL0X3BerP/hlZqnssPXoCt01riNPwb3nC3vgWjzDBUGEc25gJT4FZ4mU RlhsCGuB+vpN2VU6HKKtGzvhN9xjLwnJokZP8= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; b=lgFA/Wl0IE3yvqytQ3NuoaTbS0WWR+aYMAt7CWT4HWPjIN/fHEmAIYywV2vFH6Fvc1 nMJn3blgLVZ+oDOqge0ayUtBkC7zvYmb3m79J2c1lDTesZY7fvBqmk8hUYEIoLgUESpX vYaQVVHfshI4k84M2TCCgU/IR7f64fLZOQKe4= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.223.23.80 with SMTP id q16mr628743fab.8.1257114378296; Sun, 01 Nov 2009 14:26:18 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <925d17560911011205l6ce2c8dep86017dfb2039c1e9@mail.gmail.com> References: <7f1d42860910311620i4b112481k6243982cd35fffab@mail.gmail.com> <200910312012.52632.phma@phma.optus.nu> <4de8c3930911010100y91da761o7d75cdc0ab769264@mail.gmail.com> <200911010923.12734.phma@phma.optus.nu> <4de8c3930911010753s23562bcehe5969c20c9aea60@mail.gmail.com> <925d17560911011205l6ce2c8dep86017dfb2039c1e9@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sun, 1 Nov 2009 23:26:18 +0100 X-Google-Sender-Auth: 986f7036a7ca8ea2 Message-ID: <4de8c3930911011426j11a78cfdvdc182e7c3bd49651@mail.gmail.com> Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: Study plan for a quiz- I'd like a second opinion on this one From: tijlan To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by Ecartis X-archive-position: 2523 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: jbotijlan@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners 2009/11/1 Jorge Llambías : > On Sun, Nov 1, 2009 at 12:53 PM, tijlan wrote: >> >>  da ca co'i morsi (One dies.) >>  da ca ba'o morsi (One is dead.) > > That would work if "morsi" meant "dies" (a change of state, goes from > being alive to being dead) rather than "is dead" (a state). > > "ba'o morsi" means "has been dead" (i.e., it is no longer dead), not > "has died" (it is no longer dying). > > Compare with "sipna", which is more likely than "morsi" to be used > with "ba'o". "ba'o sipna" means "has been asleep", not "has fallen > asleep". "Falls asleep" is "sipybi'o" or "co'a sipna", and "dies" is > "mrobi'o" or "co'a morsi". > [...] > The difference is that events of > being dead don't usually ever end, so its unlikely that one would > speak of "ba'o morsi", "having been dead", except in some very special > contexts. I see. I was wrong about a certain point. I seem to still be in the bad habit of thinking of "ZAhO broda" in terms of "ZAhO [sumti] [ku] broda", where "da ba'o morsi" is apt to appear to me as e.g. "da ba'o lo snuti cu morsi" (One, in the aftermath of the accident, is dead). > "co'i sipna" and "co'i morsi" are complete > events of sleeping, or of being dead. How is "co'i sipna" different from "mo'u sipna", then? mu'o