From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Sun Nov 22 08:16:45 2009 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Sun, 22 Nov 2009 08:16:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1NCF7D-00060r-S6 for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Sun, 22 Nov 2009 08:16:45 -0800 Received: from mail-yw0-f187.google.com ([209.85.211.187]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1NCF78-0005zP-7N for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Sun, 22 Nov 2009 08:16:43 -0800 Received: by ywh17 with SMTP id 17so4436684ywh.2 for ; Sun, 22 Nov 2009 08:16:31 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:sender:message-id:from:to :in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version :subject:date:references:x-mailer; bh=FRWjwTbT7815BS9b/qgDigGenfYAN4KWtmR/YBUDJNA=; b=Q2Uhf02GsY0Y33zHTy9NggNDKXMpjH9+VFvUcS2bH+Nb7bKIOqeOrEK+zwuH4TNb5r pm6Zb3ce6Y/JdURD638qsrhVPRXdxLngPdAIKX77N9AVBFgZRbrrR9jQupjAx0gnfPCo ieimzOwthi9RoxRyaxXs4g0J0Wh3nYE+Lld+U= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=sender:message-id:from:to:in-reply-to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:subject:date:references :x-mailer; b=RCM/vPuy06u/qFCw66fDDPbYpkaho6RoKoLiJ1fKo79q6iRB3CRAG43b+mKiQuWWRZ J9qqk86Qum1ByfCqzPLcpdZ1CU3r3wPWfx6eahf5WOb1aiYmo2aTFXoMikuSH1HmcHSO vpbo8llBrIwtnH5tRb6EBsVjytqpA8nkNoi78= Received: by 10.91.159.22 with SMTP id l22mr5514200ago.9.1258906591448; Sun, 22 Nov 2009 08:16:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from dhcp-10-132-211-252.uawifi.arizona.edu (uawifi-nat-210-16.arizona.edu [150.135.210.16]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 6sm1535358yxg.30.2009.11.22.08.16.30 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Sun, 22 Nov 2009 08:16:30 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <36F41326-A754-44CD-BAB7-D998075C54CE@choi.name> From: Joshua Choi To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org In-Reply-To: <200911221105.31626.phma@phma.optus.nu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by Ecartis Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v936) Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: sel- vs se Date: Sun, 22 Nov 2009 09:16:29 -0700 References: <200911221105.31626.phma@phma.optus.nu> X-archive-position: 2569 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: joshua@choi.name Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners Thanks for the reply; I see now. So when it comes to the difference between pairs like "selbrode" and "selbo'e", there's no difference at all, right? They're semantically equivalent, and in this case they even have the same amount of syllables. So which one do people tend to use? Is there a rule of pragmatics, or does one not have to care at all about it? On 22 November 2009, at 9:05 AM, Pierre Abbat wrote: > On Saturday 21 November 2009 14:44:45 Joshua Choi wrote: >> Got a couple of usages question on the difference between the se >> cmavo >> and the sel rafsi. Is there any difference between "ti se citka mi" >> and "ti selcti mi"? Or "ta se klani" and "ta selklani"? One forms >> phrases—don't know if you'd call them "tanru"—and the other forms >> words >> —which probably count as lujvo. And don't lujvo have "specified" >> meanings that are more specific than their corresponding tanru? Does >> that affect words like selcti? > > Generally there's no difference, as "se citka" is not a tanru. If > "seltci" > (or "selbo'e") is used in a lujvo, though, then there is a > difference. "selcajlanci" means "flag that symbolizes something > traded", > i.e. "trademark", whereas "se canja lanci" could mean that, and > could also > mean "flag that is traded". > > Pierre > -- > li ze te'a ci vu'u ci bi'e te'a mu du > li ci su'i ze te'a mu bi'e vu'u ci > > >