From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Fri Nov 27 11:40:12 2009 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Fri, 27 Nov 2009 11:40:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1NE6fs-0006C1-9R for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Fri, 27 Nov 2009 11:40:12 -0800 Received: from mail-iw0-f202.google.com ([209.85.223.202]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1NE6fo-00069W-JP for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Fri, 27 Nov 2009 11:40:12 -0800 Received: by iwn40 with SMTP id 40so1089529iwn.28 for ; Fri, 27 Nov 2009 11:40:02 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=ZI3qrJudJIxQdfiqQR4ZPXJ+2/5vhChHx+7EjAyCBJY=; b=Z4BGEDPVZIUX+Al3U3hREfkPCfdAr4t/axkd6VEgDmhjmkPY1WYLhZ/lTVLbFvAY5L 4tRQAeyd2Db8IbBAmPR0Vl6bn/0EzW/5c1Edka94W656aAxLthjuZbXgWtIGG04G18n8 ta6wjeUYC/cK9ZL3fn63DrLtvJi6BjVb23LCA= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=RbYyvzyb69U65y5P0HEnMbdY9cOuMHij6wFPg+wwTLcsEjJiOFZEBXiDUqni1Aez7F crngJtHG/IJllLDQgxC4Xq74tN0IgmxIg25Uj1wc5P9LM7M/M64lrJMXzFLYAXqNDwe0 gT2OVr7DGpWfYFOLRXFj+M/oJQCYO/nSxtRtg= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.231.9.216 with SMTP id m24mr3211002ibm.39.1259350802071; Fri, 27 Nov 2009 11:40:02 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <12d58c160911221005xc2e53d3q24f9d0d09ba2024@mail.gmail.com> <7D2D5FD9-4849-45F3-8540-EC57C0B9C026@choi.name> <5715b9300911221432y2f9724a4nb2d5156cfc2050ac@mail.gmail.com> <249d5b950911221839p792181a5rf7a3ad83a7836cfb@mail.gmail.com> <249d5b950911240937od3a95e8p86eefec8e933abe9@mail.gmail.com> <841CCF21-32AB-4330-8199-39FDAEDAC905@choi.name> <5a3750120911241045n158302ch4f830acafdfccabb@mail.gmail.com> Date: Fri, 27 Nov 2009 14:40:02 -0500 Message-ID: <425e4ac20911271140r258c5b2i449060abf8e9697b@mail.gmail.com> Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: sel- vs se From: Stela Selckiku To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-archive-position: 2586 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: selckiku@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners On Tue, Nov 24, 2009 at 2:40 PM, Joshua Choi wrote: > > But seriously, I'm also just interested in how people generally use "ti > selkla mi" versus "ti se klama mi". To me, the former feels like the > English, "This is our destination," and the latter feels like, "This is > where we're going." But it's my English prejudice, and not necessarily the > idiomatic connotations of Lojban. Do others think of the difference this > way? Semantically, there is no difference. In a sense there almost could be-- "selkla" is a lujvo, and gets its own meaning, so on that level it could theoretically be given a meaning different than "se klama". But because that would be confusing, there is a very strong convention we all agree to that "sel-" lujvo automatically get exactly the same meaning as the equivalent "se" phrase. That's how I think of it, anyway: Any lujvo could mean anything, but we've already agreed that all of the "sel-" (etc) lujvo mean exactly what you'd expect them to mean. I try not to use squishy little lujvo like "selkla" around newbies or in anything meant for general consumption, but I do use them sometimes with other expert Lojbanists. To me that's the only difference, not so much in connotation as in register: Something where the gismu are all squished up into just their rafsi like that reads to me like something written for the (quite small) audience of folks who already know most of the common rafsi. mi'e la stela selckiku mu'o