From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Thu Jan 21 10:58:34 2010 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Thu, 21 Jan 2010 10:58:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1NY2Ej-0007V9-Id for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Thu, 21 Jan 2010 10:58:34 -0800 Received: from mail-bw0-f212.google.com ([209.85.218.212]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1NY2Ed-0007SG-7V for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Thu, 21 Jan 2010 10:58:30 -0800 Received: by bwz4 with SMTP id 4so422645bwz.2 for ; Thu, 21 Jan 2010 10:58:20 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=yb7sa1AXDgithaZN8gyX7CH7KgJLU3suOx/nYCVpytA=; b=Umj80VGWOCFjGRFU/5XJ+SkeyADiTJISoVg9E3E5VgPxm0LLmXZV9hODuhqEnurCFC lA8mCHUgsmHWlYENwUpbDU3zDmuNxlXcMb3SG2BzQvVVG2GFcpJQb2RN9fKB0Xcm5nNE oDGsAKYvP7lzmEImC3wpcDA/3tZ+I0vrsYhAI= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=ZMxOuQn+6MeH/JdJcukN2Om5aWUphxV48nCe/66UcqvjdUIa6u8q8GXTUlAsUn7KyZ YUnYC5lyJMh/nqFsQrqhz/Scw7MYwhhi/4zENRs1mDSjSs32gNsF23cVf54XGeup4HGB ptw6kollHODrgGiAGr12CFgSb2X4bglHV1/Tw= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.204.39.193 with SMTP id h1mr991584bke.147.1264100300343; Thu, 21 Jan 2010 10:58:20 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <4B585AB50200002700019194@gwia.messiah.edu> References: <4B585AB50200002700019194@gwia.messiah.edu> Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2010 15:58:20 -0300 Message-ID: <925d17561001211058j23403147n36ccd16828744566@mail.gmail.com> Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: Introduction From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?= To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by Ecartis X-archive-position: 2740 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: jjllambias@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners On Thu, Jan 21, 2010 at 3:46 PM, Zachary Felix wrote: > > What is the difference between the contradictory negation "na" and the scalar negation "na'e"?  According to the book, "na" is saying that the selbri-relation is false, and "na'e" is saying "other-than", but how are these really different?  The only conclusion I came to was that "na'e" is meaning that something else is true, though I think for most cases they would have relatively similar meanings... They are indeed very similar. The most important difference is their scope: "na" negates a whole proposition, while "na'e" only negates the word that follows. Compare these: ta na'e blanu karce "That is a non-blue car." We are told that it is non-blue, but it is definitely a car. ta na blanu karce That is not a blue car. NowiIt may be a red car, but it also may be a blue house, or a red house, etc. We don't know whether it is a car at all. You will discover other important effects of scope when you consider quantifiers, but that should give you a taste for how "na" and "na'e" differ. mu'o mi'e xorxes