From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Wed Jan 27 20:39:47 2010 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Wed, 27 Jan 2010 20:39:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1NaMAU-0008EQ-Ml for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Wed, 27 Jan 2010 20:39:47 -0800 Received: from mail-px0-f200.google.com ([209.85.216.200]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1NaMAO-0008AP-FG for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Wed, 27 Jan 2010 20:39:45 -0800 Received: by pxi38 with SMTP id 38so235604pxi.28 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 2010 20:39:34 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=rxTHTpKxEIV7+x//w0TK+qvrXoKoLpUYFXBpb0HDQfs=; b=HkQnJjAmBg+fXPM4EifKJDHwpoZzSe1UDID2R4qlz85RJh3f8TjKjLdDmltwGt2lle fAxOzUhUQTRkhRnnnRNr/emw1SzmbBE/ntXnZzOMXHg0RkVVOvmyPSC5Gek0GVVfFvNG ncAC0utifl27qayxlX0O/gpTfPgm57NDib0Po= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=x6H3cYzN/k3zofp1lSqv3HtQCj+J4ymPA07+aM065x9iEaHdDqIm0XIi5F+vGrWthr rs3nyW1863z4/EB0GuqUXzap62UhplyN2Z0ZE5EblxLedDN0pBStKzcel8lMrLp+Ee63 e5bkGniqQhBMoFfrmN9yhM/QLjzQIHj8y3FnI= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.143.21.16 with SMTP id y16mr922957wfi.215.1264653574541; Wed, 27 Jan 2010 20:39:34 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <96f789a61001272038v52367eb7x6afa296912dc660e@mail.gmail.com> References: <7177e42e1001271849o782ec540td05bdd005d247b09@mail.gmail.com> <1a3d02c41001271924i1a48cefq8cf87704a7abc24c@mail.gmail.com> <27513e551001272000n5040fe9xb88513608b33ab35@mail.gmail.com> <96f789a61001272038v52367eb7x6afa296912dc660e@mail.gmail.com> Date: Wed, 27 Jan 2010 23:39:34 -0500 Message-ID: <96f789a61001272039p7eaf2e7evab5e8c2bf62bda3b@mail.gmail.com> Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: "Why should I believe that?" From: Michael Turniansky To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by Ecartis X-archive-position: 2754 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: mturniansky@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners On Wed, Jan 27, 2010 at 11:38 PM, Michael Turniansky wrote: > On Wed, Jan 27, 2010 at 11:00 PM, Oren wrote: >> could I rearrange the sumti and say... >> { fe la'edu'i jinvi fo ma } >> ...to mean "why believe that?" (without specifying me or you or whoever) > >  You certainly can, but since the emphasis on the question is the > reason for belief, it's probably better to say "ma ve jinvi fe > la'edi'u" Actually, no fe. Really presumably you have just stated a fact. > >> On Thu, Jan 28, 2010 at 11:24, Sam Chapin wrote: >>> >>> For a start there's {jinvi}, "opine": x1 holds opinion x2 (du'u) about >>> subject x3 for reason x4. >>> >>> http://www.lojban.org/cgi-bin/dict.pl?Form=dict.pl1&Query=jinvi&Strategy=*&Database=*&submit=Submit+query >>> On Wed, Jan 27, 2010 at 9:49 PM, DataPacRat wrote: >>>> >>>> "Why should I believe that?" is a fairly simple phrase, and the >>>> cornerstone of the scientific method and skeptical movement... and I'm >>>> having a bit of a time figuring out the Lojban version. The most >>>> relevant lujvo or gismu I can find dealing with belief is krici, which >>>> is belief /without/ evidence or proof, the exact opposite of the sort >>>> of belief I want to deal with. Another way to say the same idea in >>>> English is "What evidence supports that [assertion]?", but I'm having >>>> trouble figuring out the different lujvo; would >>>> >>>> ma xu'acmu fi ta >>>> >>>> translate to something like "What evidence is the basis for asserting >>>> that?" >>>> >>>> Or should I be trying to figure out "velji'i datni" or "sidydatni" >>>> mentioned in the entry for datni? >>>> >>>> >>>> Thank you for your time, >>>> -- >>>> DataPacRat >>>> li te'o te'a vei pai pi'i ka'o ve'o su'i pa du li no .i je'a melbi! >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >> >> >