From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Wed Feb 10 16:59:52 2010 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Wed, 10 Feb 2010 16:59:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1NfNPL-0004nH-Rc for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Wed, 10 Feb 2010 16:59:52 -0800 Received: from mail-ew0-f223.google.com ([209.85.219.223]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1NfNPF-0004jK-PD for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Wed, 10 Feb 2010 16:59:49 -0800 Received: by ewy23 with SMTP id 23so298756ewy.4 for ; Wed, 10 Feb 2010 16:59:39 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=7kMzUU7e0hcOMuUEzEl0fxXTrH0eeykCSYiaNS6Ebio=; b=coEEVsKb/hCgQMkgG1bAlvOCT/Mga3HUpxG99jkfLhaKZlE3qeVWwJ22hdFvARCoyN a6YdlNIoZ0qROwHqCXWrNQBLRLNCRYAzpaAE6dB5zvZD+PfrAwmF0f3vtjoTWojSKrnK j6zMOfyjUuoXTqOz+pfLbB310Opx58bOqTAx8= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=Mf1K2YNvWqVEIdyuQxQV0HjMSqToOEnirJU8a5ym2kLL2Zal9nLAR4oAv5CRdN1RNL myungXhV+E8w15ExyoW6QYoYMX8IK+e05TeXGajsS6KPc9wgT5KfEghJ5ROi9PT4PIZX UDDTYbAxt7O+pcg/eogOX8wCCQPDQ1PDmBFA0= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.213.109.214 with SMTP id k22mr6941369ebp.83.1265849979065; Wed, 10 Feb 2010 16:59:39 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <4de8c3931002101635w148496f3ie2485233236ec702@mail.gmail.com> References: <1f1080831002101527h41ecc51dr31eb898ec73e744@mail.gmail.com> <4de8c3931002101635w148496f3ie2485233236ec702@mail.gmail.com> Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 19:59:39 -0500 Message-ID: <1f1080831002101659j71c65da9s78dadc0514e9f3ae@mail.gmail.com> Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: Starting stories From: Ian Johnson To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=000e0cdfd85e575503047f48aa8c X-archive-position: 2817 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: blindbravado@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners --000e0cdfd85e575503047f48aa8c Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 I'm not quite sure how {ni'o ni'o ni'o} works here; I checked the CLL and it seems to more or less indicate "going off on a completely different topic altogether"...the mechanisms are actually pretty specific, but the core "meaning" seems somewhat vague. I can see how it might, but I'm not quite clear on how it fits. I do like {puzuku} for some of these usages, though. It also has the assonance, which is kinda nice for a children's story (which is what I'm writing for simplicity's sake). I suppose one could use both. For example (and this is what I was doing earlier when this came up) you could start the whole text by introducing some relevant characters and a little bit of information about them, beginning with {ni'o ni'o ni'o} and then essentially say "one day, such and such happened" with "one day" being translated as {puzuku}. mu'omi'e latros. On Wed, Feb 10, 2010 at 7:35 PM, tijlan wrote: > On 10 February 2010 23:27, Ian Johnson wrote: > > In English we have things like "once upon a time" or "one day" that we > use > > conventionally to start stories, especially in fiction. Latin takes this > one > > step further and uses just one word, "olim", which unlike the English > > version has no tense dependence; it makes sense to use olim in a story > about > > the distant future. Does Lojban have anything like this, either defined > this > > way (like Latin) or conventionally used this way (like English)? I've > been > > hunting for a while and haven't gotten anywhere. > > I suggest "puzuku", which means "at a long distance in time toward the > past". I first used it when I translated a Japanese folk tale. In > Japanese they say "mukasi mukasi", meaning "past past", plus "aru > tokoro ni", meaning "at some place", for which I like to use "bu'uku". > > > mu'o mi'e tijlan > > > > --000e0cdfd85e575503047f48aa8c Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I'm not quite sure how {ni'o ni'o ni'o} works here; I check= ed the CLL and it seems to more or less indicate "going off on a compl= etely different topic altogether"...the mechanisms are actually pretty= specific, but the core "meaning" seems somewhat vague. I can see= how it might, but I'm not quite clear on how it fits.

I do like {puzuku} for some of these usages, though. It also has the as= sonance, which is kinda nice for a children's story (which is what I= 9;m writing for simplicity's sake).

I suppose one could use both= . For example (and this is what I was doing earlier when this came up) you = could start the whole text by introducing some relevant characters and a li= ttle bit of information about them, beginning with {ni'o ni'o ni= 9;o} and then essentially say "one day, such and such happened" w= ith "one day" being translated as {puzuku}.

mu'omi'e latros.

On Wed, Feb = 10, 2010 at 7:35 PM, tijlan <jbotijlan@gmail.com> wrote:
On 10 February 2010 23:27, Ian Johnson &l= t;blindbravado@gmail.com> = wrote:
> In English we have things like "once upon a time" or "o= ne day" that we use
> conventionally to start stories, especially in fiction. Latin takes th= is one
> step further and uses just one word, "olim", which unlike th= e English
> version has no tense dependence; it makes sense to use olim in a story= about
> the distant future. Does Lojban have anything like this, either define= d this
> way (like Latin) or conventionally used this way (like English)? I'= ;ve been
> hunting for a while and haven't gotten anywhere.

I suggest "puzuku", which means "at a long dista= nce in time toward the
past". I first used it when I translated a Japanese folk tale. In
Japanese they say "mukasi mukasi", meaning "past past",= plus "aru
tokoro ni", meaning "at some place", for which I like to use= "bu'uku".


mu'o mi'e tijlan




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