From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Thu Mar 11 05:21:02 2010 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Thu, 11 Mar 2010 05:21:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1NpiJx-0005vK-53 for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Thu, 11 Mar 2010 05:21:01 -0800 Received: from mail-yw0-f176.google.com ([209.85.211.176]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1NpiJq-0005tY-SH for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Thu, 11 Mar 2010 05:20:58 -0800 Received: by ywh6 with SMTP id 6so7054ywh.16 for ; Thu, 11 Mar 2010 05:20:48 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=cokbn85Hloo850FuY/hX20cjdupC2iEh6AwMqbsigh0=; b=RIuSSn96htWA3xCX7D/1r4AFdtdHMqEV5iQPK/IpwKca6lgY7PicXrTKTIOCsNiv9M veqHapRAxjXir+TfeK4/q93l0D+6f/XAynWDCAYaBr29IrtljRx6tWweKuwLOF70kIUJ 72UUE1jNRQpU1ZYgvCX+bDW2JPmv7QN3H3jck= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=F8TH9m/GFLh20mOgSfF7hWqpFJt5TvwH8HLQRm75+8CV1IoiiqSAJ0DLehZigBjLRl WZ+CkPu3bJ9htjkgw+vtn4oVNKAjjxrpnHhPW1JrhAdkO5MdIBXI+CRxswxOCXl5ngTs hMF2mFK3yZU9hDvVvLFpxPBw66E1+6AdED0g0= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.101.152.19 with SMTP id e19mr4083593ano.98.1268313648067; Thu, 11 Mar 2010 05:20:48 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <201003110027.41498.phma@phma.optus.nu> References: <1f1080831003101520r1e87f21cuacb4cd23fa9a2d4c@mail.gmail.com> <12d58c161003101532q3bf8ca8exc72b1fb3c5bcc9c@mail.gmail.com> <201003110027.41498.phma@phma.optus.nu> Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2010 08:20:47 -0500 Message-ID: <1f1080831003110520o58a029a2r8dae3d6fb63070cf@mail.gmail.com> Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: Duration questions From: Ian Johnson To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001636c92a8c74f77004818648a6 X-archive-position: 2988 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: blindbravado@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners --001636c92a8c74f77004818648a6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I like that. It's bending the formal rules a little bit, but in a way that makes sense. I hadn't noticed that English does pretty much the same thing, either; it's odd how being a native speaker (or perhaps just being fluent?) makes you miss things like that. .i ki'e .i mu'omi'e .latros. On Thu, Mar 11, 2010 at 12:27 AM, Pierre Abbat wrote: > On Wednesday 10 March 2010 18:32:18 komfo,amonan wrote: > > I take {ze'a} (and its kin {za}, {ve'a}, and {va}) to mean not only > > "medium", but also "unspecified". Others follow this usage as well, eve= n > > though it's not strictly in accordance with the definition. So, {[.i ti > > zdani mi ze'a] lo cabdei} is a reasonable answer to the question. > > I agree. This is one of several things called "markedness" in linguistics= . > In > Lojban, the middle degree is unmarked. In English, there is no middle > degree, > and "long" is unmarked. The unmarked degree is used in questions, unless > you > know in advance that the marked degree applies. So "How short have you be= en > living in this house?" implies that you already know that it has been a > short > time. > > Pierre > -- > When a barnacle settles down, its brain disintegrates. > J=E1 n=E3o percebe nada, j=E1 n=E3o percebe nada. > > > > --001636c92a8c74f77004818648a6 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I like that. It's bending the formal rules a little bit, but in a way t= hat makes sense. I hadn't noticed that English does pretty much the sam= e thing, either; it's odd how being a native speaker (or perhaps just b= eing fluent?) makes you miss things like that.

.i ki'e .i mu'omi'e .latros.

On Thu, Mar 11, 2010 at 12:27 AM, Pierre Abbat <<= a href=3D"mailto:phma@phma.optus.nu">phma@phma.optus.nu> wrot= e:
On Wednesday 10 March 2010 18:32:18 komfo,amonan wrote:
> I take {ze'a} (and its kin {za}, {ve'a}, and {va}) to mean not= only
> "medium", but also "unspecified". Others follow th= is usage as well, even
> though it's not strictly in accordance with the definition. So, {[= .i ti
> zdani mi ze'a] lo cabdei} is a reasonable answer to the question.<= br>
I agree. This is one of several things called "markedness" = in linguistics. In
Lojban, the middle degree is unmarked. In English, there is no middle degre= e,
and "long" is unmarked. The unmarked degree is used in questions,= unless you
know in advance that the marked degree applies. So "How short have you= been
living in this house?" implies that you already know that it has been = a short
time.

Pierre
--
When a barnacle settles down, its brain disintegrates.
J=E1 n=E3o percebe nada, j=E1 n=E3o percebe nada.




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