From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Mon Mar 15 20:25:29 2010 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Mon, 15 Mar 2010 20:25:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1NrNPL-0000Ww-Ua for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Mon, 15 Mar 2010 20:25:28 -0700 Received: from mail-bw0-f219.google.com ([209.85.218.219]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1NrNPI-0000Vo-EF for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Mon, 15 Mar 2010 20:25:27 -0700 Received: by bwz19 with SMTP id 19so304363bwz.26 for ; Mon, 15 Mar 2010 20:25:17 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=xwAvazY8A+qBNeTQhCcGrZKKtW2Cj15xmmyLqn9D0Lk=; b=rLSkY+G7YtKAV7YAUp0Belll7mHjQJPHcFnBqRUprEEqimpt0fkFM+RTfpE/bv4QHg ABu254WbgWyWsprFEwPvI1wsYJDrYexidHe11zAZQqV/FfFCXJteXdl8qTjRqk2THXlU zMACH+giLLnLjwOu5bUIDIka+/7Wgy76TiyJs= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=gbJmW2+62a+fKYAAGiTq5e2AXI04riF+/aM+gA1xAJuFlhFn8ZnntUn/5qtu8QGOmk 03oTs9enzBCCZr7m4zUkekFfEkkOCud/26jpzeOw48x619foYEAtzOIRhh/R8LLMXxmB cPFOqwX2lwX9oP4H0tFTp49ka/kdSTvr/uPfk= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.204.143.82 with SMTP id t18mr3590550bku.146.1268709915841; Mon, 15 Mar 2010 20:25:15 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <1f1080831003151845u6a7a5d87x97ed40dd5d2dbf5f@mail.gmail.com> References: <4de8c3931003130452v3473ee1ei70da65f022ac2b1b@mail.gmail.com> <925d17561003151014p415766a4n310d69d20b72bac7@mail.gmail.com> <16d9defd1003151126j12806949q6f3b676b05ed35ac@mail.gmail.com> <16d9defd1003151137mba5fc38lba8b846c6faac933@mail.gmail.com> <96f789a61003151223y40cbd6a8s8c0a5041d89ffcb0@mail.gmail.com> <1f1080831003151435u2d8df14eo26bb0a4f60a33c2@mail.gmail.com> <925d17561003151529l45aae38aiac525e7e832e0db3@mail.gmail.com> <1f1080831003151545n6b3a1bd4x34eebbdaaebaa786@mail.gmail.com> <925d17561003151718y716cdc5cn4464653606e722f0@mail.gmail.com> <1f1080831003151845u6a7a5d87x97ed40dd5d2dbf5f@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2010 00:25:15 -0300 Message-ID: <925d17561003152025w7747ab1aj7e127feee1d94cd5@mail.gmail.com> Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: How versatile is "nu"? From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?= To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-archive-position: 3019 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: jjllambias@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 10:45 PM, Ian Johnson wrote: > I suppose that makes sense. I also suppose that what I should've said would > be "I know what the truth value of {bridi} is", which is in and of itself an > indirect question...gah. Right, in that case you could use the "truth value" meaning of "jei", as in: mi djuno lo du'u makau jei but it's just more verbiage added to the simpler "xukau" form. And to be consistent, the direct question to use should be: ma jei instead of the simpler: xu > Would really be nice IMO to come up with some sort > of mechanism to ascend beyond indirect questions altogether, but I don't > think I'm anywhere near metalinguistic enough to come up with one. I wonder > if there are any natural languages that do something completely different > from them... Well, in English you can avoid them most of the time. You can say "I know your name" instead of "I know what your name is", or "I know the number of apples in the basket" instead of "I know how many apples there are in the basket", and I guess "I know if you are tired" is the way to avoid the "whether" indirect question.. But that doeasn't really work in Lojban because the object of "djuno" has to be a proposition. mu'o mi'e xorxes