From lojbab@lojban.org Mon Feb 10 07:32:23 2003 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Mon, 10 Feb 2003 07:43:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from lakemtao04.cox.net ([68.1.17.241]) by digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 18iFuv-00020J-00 for lojban-beginners@chain.digitalkingdom.org; Mon, 10 Feb 2003 07:32:21 -0800 Received: from lojban.lojban.org ([68.100.206.153]) by lakemtao04.cox.net (InterMail vM.5.01.04.05 201-253-122-122-105-20011231) with ESMTP id <20030210153151.HNHV22825.lakemtao04.cox.net@lojban.lojban.org> for ; Mon, 10 Feb 2003 10:31:51 -0500 Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.0.20030210102027.033d9b30@pop.east.cox.net> X-Sender: rlechevalier@pop.east.cox.net Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 10:30:48 -0500 To: lojban-beginners@chain.digitalkingdom.org From: Robert LeChevalier Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: tanru/lujvo for [name] type of thing? In-Reply-To: <2631311C-3CE8-11D7-B0CD-000393B76BE4@mac.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-archive-position: 76 X-Approved-By: jkominek@miranda.org X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@chain.digitalkingdom.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@chain.digitalkingdom.org X-original-sender: lojbab@lojban.org Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@chain.digitalkingdom.org X-list: lojban-beginners At 12:09 PM 2/10/03 +0100, Jan Pilgenroeder wrote: >I'v just been thinking about (someday) writing a short summary of Niklas >Luhmann's Theory of Social Systems in Lojban. The Problem is: Luhmann >redefines some common and very basic words. So it would be nice to mark >them as being used in a Luhmann way. One way I figured would be to build a >tanru with a loanwoard e.g. "saskrlumani cusku" or even shorter "saskrlu >cusku", but this is not really beautiful and does not allow for lujvo >building (or does it?). > >It would make sense transfer Luhmann's terminology completely as fu'ivla >(in many cases it would be nice to have a different place structure >anyway), but I've been wondering if there is a different way. > >BTW: how do you define place-structures for fu'ivla? > >I need to say something like e.g.: "A Luhmann type-of Observation is the >drawing of a distiction between two states and the marking of one of the >states" and I would like the place structure to be X1= the operation of >observing, X2= the marked state, X3= the unmarked state, X4= the observing >system (a human mind or a communications-system e.g. science or an >organisation). >And it would be really nice to be able to build lujvo e.g. for >"science-type-of-(Luhmann-type-of-observation)" or >"self-referential-type-of-(Luhmann-type-of-observation)" > >How could I do this in Lojban? This is precisely what the "broda" series of gismu were included in the language for: specialized jargon that will not necessarily have any use outside of a particular context. We included rafsi for two of them to allow them to be used in specialized short-term lujvo. At the beginning of the essay, you first define broda, in this case as me la'o dot. Luhmann dot. cei broda (if you usually want a CVC rafsi for modifying, or brode if you usually want a CVV rafsi for final position) and you now can use "broda", or "rod" in lujvo modification throughout the translation as a modifier to mean more or less "related to Luhmann". There are no rules for place structures of fu'ivla. It would be good practice for a translator to include place structures for any that he coins, in a glossary (it would be a good idea for every writer to do so when he coins a lujvo as well). lojbab -- lojbab lojbab@lojban.org Bob LeChevalier, President, The Logical Language Group, Inc. 2904 Beau Lane, Fairfax VA 22031-1303 USA 703-385-0273 Artificial language Loglan/Lojban: http://www.lojban.org