From jjllambias@hotmail.com Fri Mar 14 13:37:29 2003 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Fri, 14 Mar 2003 13:37:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from f67.law8.hotmail.com ([216.33.241.67] helo=hotmail.com) by digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 18twro-0007Wy-00 for lojban-beginners@chain.digitalkingdom.org; Fri, 14 Mar 2003 13:37:28 -0800 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 14 Mar 2003 13:36:57 -0800 Received: from 200.49.74.2 by lw8fd.law8.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Fri, 14 Mar 2003 21:36:57 GMT X-Originating-IP: [200.49.74.2] From: "Jorge Llambias" To: lojban-beginners@chain.digitalkingdom.org Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: FAhA-cmavo Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2003 21:36:57 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 14 Mar 2003 21:36:57.0588 (UTC) FILETIME=[D6CEDB40:01C2EA71] X-archive-position: 208 X-Approved-By: jjllambias@hotmail.com X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@chain.digitalkingdom.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@chain.digitalkingdom.org X-original-sender: jjllambias@hotmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@chain.digitalkingdom.org X-list: lojban-beginners coi iens la iens cusku di'e >Hmm, then {mi klama to'o le mi zdani} is "I go away from my home". >But where is the difference between {mi klama mo'i to'o le mi >zdani" and my last sentence? {mo'i} is a strange word. We have three concepts: position, direction and movement. In my view, most FAhAs indicate position, but {fa'a} and {to'o} indicate direction. In the most official view, all FAhAs indicate position, including {fa'a} and {to'o}, with hard to understand meanings. {mo'i} officially indicates movement+direction, so the official interpretation has no way of indicating direction without movement. But in addition to that, it is not clear what type of movement {mo'i} indicates: Is it the movement of the event as a whole, or the movement of one of the sumti? {klama} by itself already contains the idea of the movement of x1, so it is not necessary to add {mo'i}, which would suggest that the whole going is in movement (for example if you go from one car to the next in a moving train). >According to refgram {to'o} is >"away from" and {mo'ito'o} "departing from", but I can't see >a difference. Perhaps my English isn't good enough? I would say that the problem is that the refgram is rather confused on this issue, not your English, but then maybe it is my English that is not good enough. >By the way, {mi klama to'o le mi zdani} and {mi klama fi le >mi zdani} should be the same, shouldn't they? Not necessarily. I can go in a direction away from you without departing from where you are. {to'o} for me just indicates direction, not point of departure. >...(snip)... > > >Is {do sanli ri'u vi mi} > > >the same? Or does the {vi} indicate, that "you are standing > > >very close on the right of me"? > > > > I would say {ri'u mi viku} for that, since {ri} would tag > > the magnitude of the distance rather than the origin: > > {do sanli ri'u mi vi lo centre be li so'u}, "you are > > standing only a few centimeters to my right". > >And what about {do vi sanli ri'u mi} - "You are here-standing >on the right of me"? Yes, that works too. There is little if any difference between tenses used directly on the selbri or anywhere else with {ku}. mu'o mi'e xorxes _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail