From robin@bilkent.edu.tr Mon Oct 27 06:11:05 2003 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Mon, 27 Oct 2003 06:11:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from manyas.bcc.bilkent.edu.tr ([139.179.30.24]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.22) id 1AE85H-0005aW-TM for lojban-beginners@chain.digitalkingdom.org; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 06:11:04 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by manyas.bcc.bilkent.edu.tr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1F5583206E for ; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 16:10:28 +0200 (EET) Received: from bilkent.edu.tr (pcikt89.bcc.bilkent.edu.tr [139.179.80.89]) by manyas.bcc.bilkent.edu.tr (Postfix) with ESMTP id C001027172 for ; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 16:10:26 +0200 (EET) Message-ID: <3F9D25E4.6020807@bilkent.edu.tr> Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2003 16:04:20 +0200 From: Robin Turner User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030701 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: lojban-beginners@chain.digitalkingdom.org Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: More Turner/Nicholas lesson questions References: <200310270954.EAA02815@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> In-Reply-To: <200310270954.EAA02815@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS snapshot-20020531 X-archive-position: 447 X-Approved-By: robin@bilkent.edu.tr X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@chain.digitalkingdom.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@chain.digitalkingdom.org X-original-sender: robin@bilkent.edu.tr Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@chain.digitalkingdom.org X-list: lojban-beginners der Mouse wrote: > As I mentioned in my previous thread head, I've been working through > the Turner/Nicholas lessons. I've now got some more questions, if > anyone could be kind enough to take a few moments for them. > > > Lesson 9, Exercise 4 (collapse two sentences into one with poi), item 5: > > .i mi viska va le barja le ninmu .i mi klama le barja le briju > > The answer given is > > .i mi viska va le barja poi mi klama fi le briju ku'o le ninmu > > which is fine. When answering this, I didn't write that, but I came up > with two other alternatives: > > .i mi viska va le barja poi mi klama ke'a le briju ku'o le ninmu > .i mi viska va le barja poi se klama mi le briju ku'o le ninmu > > After reading the explanation accompanying the answer, I'm fairly sure > the first is a reasonable alternative (it's just a question of whether > you'd rather use fi or ke'a). But what about the second? Is it a > reasonable rendition? (And if not, why not?) In the second example, "le briju" gets stuck to the "klama", I think. > > > Lesson 9, Exercise 6 answer, item 1: > > Note: That odd expression lo cacra be li pimu is in fact how you'd > normally say 'half an hour.' In general, when Lojban measures > things, it doesn't divide them up into n individual units, but > rather says that x measures n units. So "Reading this lesson took > me two hours" would be in Lojban lenu mi tcidu le vi ve cilre cu > cacra li re. > > So why is it "cacra li re" but not "cacra li pimu" - why the lo...be? > Is this the difference between "half an hour" and "a half-hour", and if > so, why is the be needed rather than using "lo cacra li pimu"? Because of the "lo". In the example "lenu mi tcidu le vi ve cilre cu cacra li re," "cacra" is a selbri which takes the number as one of its places. In "lo cacra be pimu", the "be" works to add an extra place to a sumti (making it act as though it were a selbri. > > > Lesson 10, Exercise 2, answer for item 6: > > Is it my imagination, or should all "ni'i"s be changed to "seni'i"s in > these two paragraphs? > > > Lesson 15, the "tu'a" section: > > Two of the examples given here as motivations for "tu'a" are > > lenu la djiotis. cu co'e cu cinri > > lenu la jan. co'e cu fenki > > But it is left unexplained why one contains a "cu" where the other > doesn't. I see no difference between them that explains it; is this > simply a case of an unnecessary cmavo ("cu") making an appearance, or > is the "cu" necessary (and if so, why?)? I'm not sure, as I didn't write that chapter - I'd say the "cu" in the first example was not necessary, though not incorrect, like any case of a "cu" following a cmene. robin.tr -- "Any day that cossacks haven't burned your home should start out a happy one, overflowing with optimism." - M.N. Plano Robin Turner IDMYO Bilkent Univeritesi Ankara 06533 Turkey www.bilkent.edu.tr/~robin