From mouse@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Mon Oct 27 23:03:16 2003 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Mon, 27 Oct 2003 23:03:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from sparkle.rodents.montreal.qc.ca ([216.46.5.7] ident=L36ZqtE4OpvzfL8XNOTI992MWgOwdk6HQiJYob3Ujuk) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.22) id 1AENsq-0004NS-90 for lojban-beginners@chain.digitalkingdom.org; Mon, 27 Oct 2003 23:03:16 -0800 Received: (from mouse@localhost) by Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (8.8.8/8.8.8) id CAA19244; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 02:03:13 -0500 (EST) From: der Mouse Message-Id: <200310280703.CAA19244@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Erik-Conspiracy: There is no Conspiracy - and if there were I wouldn't be part of it anyway. Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 01:14:32 -0500 (EST) To: lojban-beginners@chain.digitalkingdom.org Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: More Turner/Nicholas lesson questions In-Reply-To: <3F9D25E4.6020807@bilkent.edu.tr> <20031027213405.GR3490@digitalkingdom.org> <5.1.0.14.0.20031027195247.02df0e30@pop.east.cox.net> References: <200310270954.EAA02815@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> <3F9D25E4.6020807@bilkent.edu.tr> <20031027213405.GR3490@digitalkingdom.org> <5.1.0.14.0.20031027195247.02df0e30@pop.east.cox.net> X-archive-position: 452 X-Approved-By: mouse@Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@chain.digitalkingdom.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@chain.digitalkingdom.org X-original-sender: mouse@Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@chain.digitalkingdom.org X-list: lojban-beginners [me, Mouse] [mi noi la maus.] <-- is this a fair translation of the previous line? >> [...] Turner/Nicholas lessons [...] >> Lesson 9, Exercise 4 (collapse two sentences into one with poi), item 5: >> .i mi viska va le barja le ninmu .i mi klama le barja le briju >> [my answers] >> .i mi viska va le barja poi mi klama ke'a le briju ku'o le ninmu >> .i mi viska va le barja poi se klama mi le briju ku'o le ninmu >> [is the second correct?] [Robin Turner ] > In the second example, "le briju" gets stuck to the "klama", I think. Yes; it's in the x3 slot of klama. But that's true of the first as well, and of the solution given (... poi mi klama fi le briju ...). [Nora LeChevalier ] > I am a bit confused by the answers you've been given to this. All of > them look equivalent to me. Here is the breakdown of what they mean. > If I'm mistaken, I'm sure someone will correct me. > [...] Your analysis is more or less identical to my own, so if we're wrong at least we have one another for company in our error :) Since Lojban has a machine-parseable grammar, I'm very tempted to download the grammar and build a parsing program around it to do this sort of thing - if I can feed it sentences and get this kind of analysis mechanically, it should help me figure out where my mistake is when I make one. (Of course, such a program likely already exists. It's so obvious surely someone has already done it, and I haven't really gone looking yet to see.) >> Lesson 9, Exercise 6 answer, item 1: >> Note: That odd expression lo cacra be li pimu is in fact how >> you'd normally say 'half an hour.' [...] So "Reading this >> lesson took me two hours" would be in Lojban lenu mi tcidu le >> vi ve cilre cu cacra li re. >> So why is it "cacra li re" but not "cacra li pimu" - why the lo...be? >> [...guess...] and if so, why is the be needed [...]? [Robin Turner ] > Because of the "lo". [...] [Robin Lee Powell ] > "lo" makes in into a sumti, [...] [Nora LeChevalier ] > [the same answer, in a form that doesn't lend itself to brief quoting] These answer the second question, yes; I shouldn't have needed that reminder (that to fill a place of a selbri inside a le/lo/etc, the sumti must be marked by be/bei). As for the first, I think maybe I've answered that on my own: "lo cacra be li pimu" _is_ the same thing as "cacra li pimu", just transformed from a (partially unspecified) bridi into a sumti - is that accurate? /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B