From rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org Fri Mar 12 17:32:09 2004 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Fri, 12 Mar 2004 17:32:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from rlpowell by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.30) id 1B1y0X-0005CT-Hi for lojban-beginners@chain.digitalkingdom.org; Fri, 12 Mar 2004 17:32:09 -0800 Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 17:32:09 -0800 To: lojban-beginners@chain.digitalkingdom.org Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: Story time Message-ID: <20040313013209.GT11847@digitalkingdom.org> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20040312175709.00ab59f0@pop.east.cox.net> <20040312233149.328.qmail@web41902.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20040312233149.328.qmail@web41902.mail.yahoo.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.5.1+cvs20040105i From: Robin Lee Powell X-archive-position: 593 X-Approved-By: rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@chain.digitalkingdom.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@chain.digitalkingdom.org X-original-sender: rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@chain.digitalkingdom.org X-list: lojban-beginners On Fri, Mar 12, 2004 at 03:31:49PM -0800, Jorge Llamb?as wrote: > > --- Nora LeChevalier wrote: > > At 04:39 AM 3/12/04 -0800, la xorxes wrote: > > > > >Under the usual interpretation, the two negatives will cancel and > > >{noda viska node} would be equivalent to {roda viska su'ode}, > > >"everybody saw something". > > > > > >To say that nobody saw anything you'd have to say {noda viska > > >su'ode} or {roda viska node}. > > > > No, "noda" means "there are zero things (da) such that", so "noda > > viska node" means "there are zero x's and zero y's such that x sees > > y". I thought it was a nifty way of saying "No one (yeah, sure) saw > > anything (yeah, right)". > > The standard reading is: > > There are zero x's such that there are zero y's such that x sees y. > > In other words, no x is such that it sees no y's. > > In other words, every x sees at least one y. I'm pretty sure xorxes is right on this, although I'm not up for writing a proof at the moment. -Robin -- Me: http://www.digitalkingdom.org/~rlpowell/ *** I'm a *male* Robin. "Constant neocortex override is the only thing that stops us all from running out and eating all the cookies." -- Eliezer Yudkowsky http://www.lojban.org/ *** .i cimo'o prali .ui