From kesuari@yahoo.com.au Thu Aug 19 14:17:02 2004 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Thu, 19 Aug 2004 14:17:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from web52005.mail.yahoo.com ([206.190.39.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with smtp (Exim 4.34) id 1BxuHO-0003pD-AS for lojban-beginners@chain.digitalkingdom.org; Thu, 19 Aug 2004 14:17:02 -0700 Message-ID: <20040819211630.70754.qmail@web52005.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [202.147.117.39] by web52005.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 20 Aug 2004 07:16:30 EST Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 07:16:30 +1000 (EST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Tristan=20Mc=20Leay?= Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: Anyone there? To: lojban-beginners@chain.digitalkingdom.org In-Reply-To: <20040819204330.GK5127@chain.digitalkingdom.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 X-archive-position: 711 X-Approved-By: kesuari@yahoo.com.au X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@chain.digitalkingdom.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@chain.digitalkingdom.org X-original-sender: kesuari@yahoo.com.au Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@chain.digitalkingdom.org X-list: lojban-beginners --- Robin Lee Powell wrote: > On Fri, Aug 20, 2004 at 06:30:10AM +1000, Tristan Mc > Leay wrote: > > But that still brings up two issues: > > > > (1) my original point, that [i] vs [I] is not > > particularly well-attested amongst the > world's > > languages. Spanish for instance doesn't have > it. > > To the best of my understanding, langs that > > don't have both tend to have difficulty > > distinguishing them. > > You've gone way beyond me now; ask the Founders. Sorry... are they to be found here? (Maybe I should ask the Finders :) But now that I definitively don't have an answer, I suppose we can end the tangent now... > > (2) any non-lojban vowel (apart from [e] and [O], > > > being acceptible alternatives for /E/ and > /o/, > > yes?) can be used as a buffer, I thought. So > if I > > wanted, I could happily say rabn. as [rabn=] > > or [rab2n] or [rabVn] or any other number of > > options. > > I don't know enough about IPA or phonetics to > completely follow this, > but I believe you're corroct. Sorry, I sometimes assume everyone knows IPA/XSAMPA and get carried away. Which is silly, but will be necessary when I'm Overlord of the World. n= means a syllable composed entirely of the consonant n 2 is the vowel in Fr. 'deux' V is the vowel in some English dialect's pronunciation of 'up' (but not mine, and probably not yours). But never mind the details here. > > The best way to approach the phonetics of english > > dialects is with a clean slate. My dialect also > has a > > just-about pure length distinction between say dad > and > > mad, bud and barred, shed and shared, and less > > definitely bid and beard ([I:] and [I@] and > various > > other similar sounds turn up as allophones of each > > other conditioned as much by randomness as other > > sounds). > > Lost me compeletly. Um... I just said English was odd, but I took a lot of words to do it. > > > Can you give me an example of a word with [I] in > it? > > > > Well, I suppose assuming short i is [I], then > > 'little'. > > OK, so what's a word with long i in it, then, in > your dialect? Long i? Like in the word 'eye'? (a diphthong) Or long e? Like in the word 'bee'? (a diphthong) Or even long [I:] (a long short i), like in the word 'beards'? (not always a diphthong) -- Tristan. Find local movie times and trailers on Yahoo! Movies. http://au.movies.yahoo.com