From mouse@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Thu Dec 02 00:15:45 2004 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Thu, 02 Dec 2004 00:15:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from sparkle.rodents.montreal.qc.ca ([216.46.5.7] ident=Zc5JdTHOawA6duRMs1bClSVxOzIwxWFM446JV2QRDWK) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1CZm7t-0007dK-Aq for lojban-beginners@chain.digitalkingdom.org; Thu, 02 Dec 2004 00:15:45 -0800 Received: (from mouse@localhost) by Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA (8.8.8/8.8.8) id DAA04495; Thu, 2 Dec 2004 03:15:41 -0500 (EST) From: der Mouse Message-Id: <200412020815.DAA04495@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Erik-Conspiracy: There is no Conspiracy - and if there were I wouldn't be part of it anyway. Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2004 02:51:23 -0500 (EST) To: lojban-beginners@chain.digitalkingdom.org Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: more 'suck' In-Reply-To: <20041201184409.GI25791@chain.digitalkingdom.org> References: <200412010851.DAA18717@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> <20041201184409.GI25791@chain.digitalkingdom.org> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by Ecartis X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA id DAA04495 X-archive-position: 917 X-Approved-By: mouse@Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@chain.digitalkingdom.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@chain.digitalkingdom.org X-original-sender: mouse@Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@chain.digitalkingdom.org X-list: lojban-beginners >> Speaking of which, could someone possibly convince the list to stop >> emitting mail with headers containing non-ASCII characters? > No, because the list doesn't generate the messages, it just passes > them on with as little munging as possible. Then I'd say it shouldn't be accepting them, if that's what it takes to stop it from emitting them. > Furthermore, how would you convert them? Convert them? I wouldn't. I'd bounce them. Indeed, I *do* bounce them. Check the list logs and you'll probably see rejections, my mailer saying "554 Invalid character in header", for messages containing From: Jorge "Llambías" (where I've simply copied the octets from the logged header to this message, causing them to be taken as 8859-1 because that's how I've marked the message). (Based on message I see quoting other messages I didn't see, I assume this is xorxes, this reinforced by the close match between "xorxes" and "Jorge".) > Just dropping all the non-ascii would change the meaning quite a bit, > and I'm not sure how any other system would work. I suspect encoding them assuming 8859-1 would work better, for purely pragmatic values of "better". Checking to see if the message itself has a character set declared and, if so using that, would probably work "better" yet. I prefer bouncing them, though; contriving your systems to paper over third parties' brokennesses only piles up trouble for the future. Render their brokennesses *blatantly* broken and they're much more likely to get fixed. > Anyways, ecartis seems to have no relevant options. If you have an > idea of how a list *should* behave in this case, I can ask the > developers to take a look at it. My idea of how a list - or any other mailer - should behave when handed such a message is simple: it should hard-reject it (as mine does). The only other even vaguely reasonable things I can see to do are to drop the invalid characters, MIME-encode them assuming some character set (vide supra), or convert them to something like question marks, and I don't really like any of those. I suppose you could drop the offending header altogether, but that is even less likely to produce sensible results. /~\ The ASCII der Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTML mouse@rodents.montreal.qc.ca / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B