From grey.havens@online.fr Sat Dec 18 00:55:13 2004 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Sat, 18 Dec 2004 06:37:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from a.mx.zettai.net ([207.58.154.6]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_3DES_EDE_CBC_SHA:24) (Exim 4.34) id 1CfaMr-0005Tm-N4 for lojban-beginners@chain.digitalkingdom.org; Sat, 18 Dec 2004 00:55:13 -0800 Received: (qmail 20796 invoked by uid 89); 18 Dec 2004 08:55:11 -0000 Received: by simscan 1.0.8 ppid: 20753, pid: 20781, t: 0.4805s scanners: clamav: 0.80/m:28/d:625 spam: 3.0.1 Received: from unknown (HELO ?192.168.0.101?) (mail@raphael.poss.name@81.56.52.12) by 0 with SMTP; 18 Dec 2004 08:55:11 -0000 In-Reply-To: <41C319F2.3080705@houston.rr.com> References: <41C319F2.3080705@houston.rr.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha1; boundary="Apple-Mail-15-498915516" Message-Id: Cc: bob-a@houston.rr.com From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Rapha=EBl_Poss?= Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: grasping lojban Date: Sat, 18 Dec 2004 09:56:07 +0100 To: lojban-beginners@chain.digitalkingdom.org X-Pgp-Agent: GPGMail 1.0.2 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.1 (2004-10-22) on beta.zettai.net X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.6 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,TW_OJ autolearn=ham version=3.0.1 X-Spam-Level: X-archive-position: 949 X-Approved-By: jkominek@miranda.org X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@chain.digitalkingdom.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@chain.digitalkingdom.org X-original-sender: grey.havens@online.fr Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@chain.digitalkingdom.org X-list: lojban-beginners --Apple-Mail-15-498915516 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed coi bob Le 17 d=E9c. 04, =E0 18:40, Bob A a =E9crit : > coi; Im new to lojban, so I have some questions. > > I heard that lojban can use SOV order without any particles, so how=20 > can you interpret "mi klama zdani" as "I go to a home" and not "I am a=20= > home of something that goes"? Actually, "mi klama zdani" means "I am a house a-going". You probably intended to oppose "mi klama le zdani" and "mi le klama cu=20= zdani" : order and cmavo (particles) make the difference. > How do you form adjectives? There are no "adjectives" per se. You qualify sumti using relative=20 clauses, or change the meaning of relationships using tanru grouping. > How do you include the objects of nouns? What does this mean ? > How can you tell when a compound phrase arnt just two words in=20 > different positions? There are cmavo to do that. For instance : "mi cmalu prenu" - "cmalu prenu" is the brivla (relation=20= phrase) because nothing comes in between to break it apart. Compare=20 with "mi klama le zdani". > How do you form adverbs? There are no "adverbs" per se. Most relation words have sumti "slots"=20 to add adverb-like meaning. If some slot is missing for the idea you=20 want to involve in a relationship, you can add it using a so-called BAI=20= clause. > What are the logical and set operators, and how do they work=20 > semantically? The logical operators are those that help you say "this AND this" or=20 "that OR those", as well as express negation and affirmation, and this=20= kind of things. The set operators are those that allow you to express what groups of=20 things are composed of. > When talking about something in the plural, is it by default=20 > considered to function as a set or as each thing? There is no plural unless you explicit a number greater than 1. Then,=20 it depends on how you make the plural thing into a sumti : you can do=20 both sets or masses, depending on the cmavo you use. > How do you specify the degree of a word? What do you mean ? > How do you talk about things like ownership and belongingship? These are expressed using relative clauses (the home that belongs to=20 me). > How do you talk about physical relation and motion? Relationship is expressed using phrases (brivla), and motion like tense=20= is expressed using cmavo that modify the meaning of the relation-words. > Which mailinglist is good for newbies to practise lojban? The one you are using is quite right. --=20 Rapha=EBl= --Apple-Mail-15-498915516 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; x-mac-type=70674453; name=PGP.sig content-description: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Ceci_est_une_signature_=E9lectronique_PGP?= content-disposition: inline; filename=PGP.sig content-transfer-encoding: 7bit -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (Darwin) iD8DBQFBw/Cq18ht0zty5ysRApmzAJ4hHLzDiFSyQ/Axk+N+zwOecSplLwCcDtG0 0DDC6nehetTfNsYBybFQY6Q= =FWcS -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail-15-498915516--