From mattarn@123.net Wed Jan 19 22:13:51 2005 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Wed, 19 Jan 2005 22:13:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from new.e-mol.com ([65.169.135.18] helo=mole.e-mol.com) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_3DES_EDE_CBC_SHA:24) (Exim 4.34) id 1CrVZn-0005Oz-Aq for lojban-beginners@chain.digitalkingdom.org; Wed, 19 Jan 2005 22:13:51 -0800 Received: from mail.123.net (new.e-mol.com [65.163.85.18]) by mole.e-mol.com (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian-7.1) with SMTP id j0K6DIIP031658 for lojban-beginners@chain.digitalkingdom.org; Thu, 20 Jan 2005 01:13:19 -0500 Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2005 01:13:18 -0500 Message-Id: <200501200613.j0K6DIIP031658@mole.e-mol.com> To: lojban-beginners@chain.digitalkingdom.org From: Matt Arnold Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: apostrophes? In-Reply-To: <20050120034040.GE12565@miranda.org> References: <41EEFA48.7020900@gulik.co.nz> <20050120003126.GD12565@miranda.org> <200501200324.j0K3OlIP016540@mole.e-mol.com> <20050120034040.GE12565@miranda.org> X-Priority: 3 X-From: mattarn@mail.123.net X-Originating-IP: [68.41.253.159] Content-Type: text/plain X-archive-position: 1044 X-Approved-By: mattarn@123.net X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@chain.digitalkingdom.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@chain.digitalkingdom.org X-original-sender: mattarn@123.net Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@chain.digitalkingdom.org X-list: lojban-beginners Jay, Sorry, this came out wrong. I did not mean to say that it is pronounced h if I think it is. I should have said, if it is pronounced h, then it is an h. Since it is not always pronounced that way, then it is sometimes not an h. If it is permissable to pronounce it as multiple things (within a certain range), I don't see why one should begrudge it to be certain different characters (within a certain range), at least in unofficial communication between those who don't mind. Although I enjoy and prefer the visual vowel separation provided by ', I can understand the substitution just fine. In any case I would certainly not misunderstand anything deliberately, considering how difficult it already is to understand people even when I'm trying. -Matt lojban-beginners@chain.digitalkingdom.org wrote: >On Wed, Jan 19, 2005 at 10:24:47PM -0500, Matt Arnold wrote: >> Jay, >> Have I been pronouncing the apostrophe wrong? I thought it was >> pronounced "h". Therefore it is. > >"I think X, therefore X"? Come on. > >The CLL discusses this, and while it gives a different explanation, >it also includes: > >"As a permitted variant, any unvoiced fricative other than those >already used in Lojban may be used to render the apostrophe: IPA [T] >is one possibility." > >[h] is one possible pronunciation of ', but not the only one. The most >interesting characteristic of it isn't what it sounds like, but >rather, what it accomplishes, which is to separate vowels. ' does >that, very visibly. > >-- >Jay Kominek _______________________________________________________ Sent through e-mol. E-mail, Anywhere, Anytime. http://www.e-mol.com