From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Fri Mar 25 13:01:10 2005 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Fri, 25 Mar 2005 13:01:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.44) id 1DEvva-0000bE-0I for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Fri, 25 Mar 2005 13:01:10 -0800 Received: from tisch.mail.mindspring.net ([207.69.200.157]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.44) id 1DEvvX-0000b0-PC for lojban-beginners@chain.digitalkingdom.org; Fri, 25 Mar 2005 13:01:09 -0800 Received: from h-68-166-21-229.atlngahp.dynamic.covad.net ([68.166.21.229] helo=thomas.mindspring.com) by tisch.mail.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 1DEvvW-0003IH-00 for lojban-beginners@chain.digitalkingdom.org; Fri, 25 Mar 2005 16:01:06 -0500 Received: from thomas (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by thomas.mindspring.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2B145420B for ; Fri, 25 Mar 2005 15:59:19 -0500 (EST) To: lojban-beginners@chain.digitalkingdom.org Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: z and s? Re: Re: first question - Lojban c and j - what's the difference? In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 23 Mar 2005 08:06:57 +0100." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2005 15:59:19 -0500 From: Bob Slaughter Message-Id: <20050325205919.2B145420B@thomas.mindspring.com> X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) X-archive-position: 1326 X-Approved-By: rslau@mindspring.com X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@chain.digitalkingdom.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@chain.digitalkingdom.org X-original-sender: rslau@mindspring.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@chain.digitalkingdom.org X-list: lojban-beginners > Thank you, that was a very good answer. Now the problem turns into the fact > that I could never tell the difference between z and s :( this is where the > vocal cords vs. friction should help me, but I guess I'm just not good at > this :( does anyone have an idea of how I might be able to understand this? > thanks > - Shindra I may have missed it, but what's your native language? Someone here with experience in that language might be able to explain it better. For me, one way is the difference between "measure" whispered and spoken aloud; it's 'c/sh' in the whispered version (since the vowels aren't fully voiced), and 'j/zh' when spoken aloud, since in most languages vowels are voiced (I know Japanese has voiceless vowel variants; anybody else?). -- Bob Slaughter, rslauGUESS@WHATmindspring.com http://www.mindspring.com/~rslau/ North Georgia Modurail: http://www.trainweb.org/northgamodurail/ In which language of the world does the word 'taxi' mean "I cannot drive"? e'osai ko sarji la lojban fo lonu pilno -- http://www.lojban.org/