From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Fri Jun 10 08:37:04 2005 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Fri, 10 Jun 2005 08:37:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.50) id 1DglZA-0003JV-Fp for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 08:37:04 -0700 Received: from wproxy.gmail.com ([64.233.184.196]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1DglZ7-0003JH-Hx for lojban-beginners@chain.digitalkingdom.org; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 08:37:04 -0700 Received: by wproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 69so401367wra for ; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 08:36:58 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=mPixQY6WkS5+xMNCIlLg7u+vQy5SUE0IsHGc/xliO//hoLSEJ0TW1oHd2W7cnXMRD9wpr/3BK8O0TjH1BHoObYlGYivO0sYVVNMATPzfNFMjSykxaGrflMx8c7POJKp8O+TZ9CHhizK49K7dlYezEsSQWuj9GjvXNXsRKZceUu0= Received: by 10.54.116.2 with SMTP id o2mr1023116wrc; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 08:36:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.54.67.20 with HTTP; Fri, 10 Jun 2005 08:36:58 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <925d175605061008365f99fd76@mail.gmail.com> Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 12:36:58 -0300 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?= To: lojban-beginners@chain.digitalkingdom.org Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: zvati In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by Ecartis Content-Disposition: inline References: <925d17560506081422399a5088@mail.gmail.com> <20050608220428.GF15659@chain.digitalkingdom.org> <925d1756050609072757542a3c@mail.gmail.com> <925d175605060911227d7c6445@mail.gmail.com> <925d175605060914082a76fce1@mail.gmail.com> X-Spam-Score: -2.5 (--) X-archive-position: 1510 X-Approved-By: jjllambias@gmail.com X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@chain.digitalkingdom.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@chain.digitalkingdom.org X-original-sender: jjllambias@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@chain.digitalkingdom.org X-list: lojban-beginners On 6/10/05, Betsemes wrote: > If an > agreement is reached in the sense of bu'u meaning "coincident with ?? in > both space and time" then I'll accept it. In the mean time, I'll consider > bu'u a pure location tense cmavo. That's quite all right, usage will decide in the end. I consider it purely locational too, it's just that I don't accept that something that is not there can serve to indicate a location. {bu'u le karce} means "at the location of the car", not "at any location the car ever was or will be". {bu'u lo nu pu salci} indicates the location where a party was held in the past, not a location where, for example, at some point in the future, a party will have been held in the past. If you see a difference between {bu'u} and {zvati} though, what makes you think that {zvati} is not purely locational? "x1 (object/event) is at/attending/present at x2 (event/location) [refers to a nonce location for an object/activity that is mobile]; (cf. especially stuzi for an inherent/inalienable location" The definition only mentions location. mu'o mi'e xorxes