From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Wed Jul 20 22:07:53 2005 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Wed, 20 Jul 2005 22:07:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.52) id 1DvTHl-0004Oc-Dl for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Wed, 20 Jul 2005 22:07:53 -0700 Received: from new.e-mol.com ([65.169.135.18] helo=mole.e-mol.com) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_3DES_EDE_CBC_SHA:24) (Exim 4.52) id 1DvTHd-0004OT-Td for lojban-beginners@chain.digitalkingdom.org; Wed, 20 Jul 2005 22:07:53 -0700 Received: from mail.123.net (nobody@new.e-mol.com [65.169.135.18]) by mole.e-mol.com (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian-7.1) with SMTP id j6L57eTd000683 for lojban-beginners@chain.digitalkingdom.org; Thu, 21 Jul 2005 01:07:41 -0400 Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2005 01:07:40 -0400 Message-Id: <200507210507.j6L57eTd000683@mole.e-mol.com> To: lojban-beginners@chain.digitalkingdom.org From: Matt Arnold Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: A few questions... In-Reply-To: <42DDC358.5010302@hypermetrics.com> References: <42DDC358.5010302@hypermetrics.com> X-Priority: 3 X-From: mattarn@mail.123.net X-Originating-IP: [69.246.119.219] Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -2.4 (--) X-archive-position: 1608 X-Approved-By: mattarn@123.net X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@chain.digitalkingdom.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@chain.digitalkingdom.org X-original-sender: mattarn@123.net Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@chain.digitalkingdom.org X-list: lojban-beginners >When I was a kid (at an old-fashioned school using old- >fashioned textbooks), stress was laid on the art of diagramming >sentences. It was thought to be a useful tool in explaining >English grammar. Most people thought of it as a cruel form of >punishment, but I secretly ate it up. (This is where conlangers >come from.) I thought it *really* clarified the way sentences >and grammar worked. So... >3. Has anyone ever thought about coming up with a system for >diagramming Lojban utterances? Or would anyone be interested? >la xal. Hal, I've thought about this for quite a while myself and would like very much for it to be developed. The output of {jbofi'e}, although good, is still linear and does very little to communicate non-verbally through graphic design. Ideally, it would offer the option of output of a JPEG of nested boxes representing bridi, selbri, sumti and so forth, with function words fitting into them like sockets or adapters. I went partway in that direction in the PDFs that I made of the first 19 pages of the Level 0 Booklet, a project in progress, which typesets and illustrates the diagrams with nested tables. http://www.lojban.org/tiki/tiki-download_wiki_attachment.php?attId=89 However, a great thing would be something representing how a gismu is like a gadget that has up to five sockets in which to plug pronouns or descriptors: http://www.nemorathwald.com/lojbantoy.jpg You see, now this is helpful and instructive to a newbie for understanding the grammar, in a way that the jbofi'e output is definitely not. The visual idea can be taken much further. For instance, modals would take the shape of a new slot or socket that can be tacked on, which immediately visually teaches what a modal is. - epkat _______________________________________________________ Sent through e-mol. E-mail, Anywhere, Anytime. http://www.e-mol.com