From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Mon Aug 01 11:15:33 2005 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Mon, 01 Aug 2005 11:16:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.52) id 1Dzep3-0008AD-JK for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Mon, 01 Aug 2005 11:15:33 -0700 Received: from hive.cec.wustl.edu ([128.252.21.14]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA:32) (Exim 4.52) id 1Dzep0-0008A5-VW for lojban-beginners@chain.digitalkingdom.org; Mon, 01 Aug 2005 11:15:33 -0700 Received: from hive.cec.wustl.edu (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by hive.cec.wustl.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j71IFTlQ020415; Mon, 1 Aug 2005 13:15:29 -0500 Received: from localhost (adam@localhost) by hive.cec.wustl.edu (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) with ESMTP id j71IFTfV020412; Mon, 1 Aug 2005 13:15:29 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: hive.cec.wustl.edu: adam owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 1 Aug 2005 13:15:29 -0500 (CDT) From: adam@wustl.edu To: lojban-beginners@chain.digitalkingdom.org Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: Diagramming Lojban In-Reply-To: <200508011732.j71HWSTd019897@mole.e-mol.com> Message-ID: References: <42EBF0D9.1010801@hypermetrics.com> <42EC63A1.1030702@hypermetrics.com> <200508011732.j71HWSTd019897@mole.e-mol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) X-archive-position: 1664 X-Approved-By: rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@chain.digitalkingdom.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@chain.digitalkingdom.org X-original-sender: adam@wustl.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@chain.digitalkingdom.org X-list: lojban-beginners This is probably as good a time as any to post what I've got. I worked on this a while ago. http://cec.wustl.edu/~adam/lojban/ jbo.pl is the main program. It's a wrapper around jbofi'e, so there are definitely some bugs. It runs jbofi'e and then attempts to parse the result, turning it into pretty html for display. output.html is an example of the output. rats.pl is an attempt to do a similar thing with the output of the new PEGS parser, but it's even more broken (output2.html shows just how ugly). It's all perl, but due to my complete lack of cgi, you'd have to download it and install it on your own computer (along with the programs it needs) to use it. It's all GPL (unless you have a reason to propose another license) so feel free to make any changes whatsoever. I hope it can be of use to someone. On Mon, 1 Aug 2005, Matt Arnold wrote: > Yes, I'm interested in developing the diagram system. It seems that this discussion is not out of place on the beginners list, at least at first. > > I see you've put {cu} on a branch. Perhaps this can be done for all elidable words? That is, words that can be dropped from the sentence are elidable. Many terminators are that way, such as the ones that close off a clause or phrase. > > I really believe you don't convey the nesting visually while sticking to a one-line format. I'd like to see boxes within boxes. > > I'd like to see cmavo that open or terminate a construct be written up-to-down or down-to up on the vertical side walls of the box that encloses that construct. I can't scan in the drawing until I get home. > > Tenses aren't the only selma'o that can create a new place. Modals do that for instance. All of these open a new sumti box and could be written vertically on the left border. > > Since a selbri (the relationship of the sentence) can be visualized as a gizmo with sockets on it, and you plug the sumti (the things that are related) into the sockets, maybe instead of boxes the sentence can be drawn like a competition ladder. On the left is X1, with a line into the selbri. The selbri line branches into up to four lines to the right, representing the places of that selbri. > > -Matt > > > lojban-beginners@chain.digitalkingdom.org wrote: >> Zachary wrote: >>> On Jul 30, 2005, at 4:27 PM, Hal Fulton wrote: >>>> >>>> I would suggest we start with the simplest, most common forms. >>>> >>>> Are you interested in pursuing this together? Should we talk off-list >>>> so as not to subject others to it? >>>> >>> >>> Hey now! I may not say anything, and I can't even understand half of >>> what's said on this list, but I find the idea of diagraming lojban to be >>> great and I'd like to read about it on the list even if I can only >>> understand a little. Heck, maybe I can help a little. Heavens know I >>> really need the experience and learning. >>> >> >> I'm not opposed to discussing it here, I just didn't want anyone to be >> bored or annoyed by it. >> >> For what it's worth, here is a good link on diagramming English: >> http://webster.commnet.edu/grammar/diagrams/diagrams.htm >> >> The style shown there is, as far as I can see, identical to what I >> was taught as a child. >> >> This is the general "type" of diagram I had in mind, as you can see >> from my earlier post. >> >> As for opening new sumti with {va} or something, I suppose I would >> favor the use of a double bar to indicate the end of the "standard" >> sumti. >> >> | >> batci | le gerku | le nanmu | (zo'e) | (zo'e) || va (zo'e) >> --------+--------------------------------------------------- >> | >> cu >> >> Does this seem reasonable? Where would we go next? >> >> Hal > > _______________________________________________________ > Sent through e-mol. E-mail, Anywhere, Anytime. http://www.e-mol.com > > > > > > -- Adam Lopresto Unix System Administrator Center for Engineering Computing, Washington University