From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Tue Aug 16 20:16:23 2005 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Tue, 16 Aug 2005 20:17:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.52) id 1E5EPe-0002K3-Ud for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Tue, 16 Aug 2005 20:16:23 -0700 Received: from zproxy.gmail.com ([64.233.162.202]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.52) id 1E5EPb-0002Jw-IE for lojban-beginners@chain.digitalkingdom.org; Tue, 16 Aug 2005 20:16:22 -0700 Received: by zproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 13so60470nzp for ; Tue, 16 Aug 2005 20:16:15 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=Cabwnsn+Q/g/+8XqGminQsMiXNxdidcf/squsp6QOs3Ol3ECo0DNa0MeMVxe7Uw6lgLTj/uzB+X4xgVRco7cfato8VyEs70vHsFIcloNcFdNiw6aDCRmgWj/7BJ6k/AFfUejHcLW/bO1eCviBcHFc6Z+4dzDqis5w2M55/8VOtg= Received: by 10.36.158.3 with SMTP id g3mr162073nze; Tue, 16 Aug 2005 20:16:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.36.67.6 with HTTP; Tue, 16 Aug 2005 20:16:15 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <737b61f305081620163df3b83b@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2005 22:16:15 -0500 From: Chris Capel To: lojban-beginners@chain.digitalkingdom.org Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: alice questions In-Reply-To: <925d17560508161657244f2bb8@mail.gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by Ecartis Content-Disposition: inline References: <737b61f30508141443b15fcc7@mail.gmail.com> <925d17560508161657244f2bb8@mail.gmail.com> X-Spam-Score: -2.5 (--) X-archive-position: 1748 X-Approved-By: jkominek@miranda.org X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@chain.digitalkingdom.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@chain.digitalkingdom.org X-original-sender: pdf23ds@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@chain.digitalkingdom.org X-list: lojban-beginners On 8/16/05, Jorge Llambías wrote: > On 8/14/05, Chris Capel wrote: > >{se kanla} is the body that holds > > the eyes, right? So {xunblabi se kanla} means "pink [type-of] being > > body(ies) with eyes" or something, not anything close to "having pink > > eyes". > > "Pink eyed". It could be "pink and eyed", but it can also just as well > be "eyed by a pink thing". Well, what I was getting at was, why is the {se} necessary, and why doesn't it change the meaning to "pink body with eyes"? Wouldn't {poi xunblabi kanla} mean "pink eyed" or "with pink eyes"? > > Oh, and why the {poi}? Oughtn't it be {lo blabi ractu noi kanla > > noi xunblabi}? > > (The two noi's there modify {lo blabi ractu}.) Is there a way to nest poi/noi clauses? > > It seems like non-restrictive ought to be the default, > > being less error-prone, and it doesn't seem that {poi} is required > > here. > > I don't see a problem with {poi} here. It restricts the sense of {blabi ractu} > to just those that have pink eyes. It feels uncomfortable to me because the restrictive sense doesn't seem to be adding any information, and as a listener I would wonder whether I were missing some subtlety that required the {poi} to communicate something. Chris Capel, who has read several more paragraphs with no new questions -- "What is it like to be a bat? What is it like to bat a bee? What is it like to be a bee being batted? What is it like to be a batted bee?" -- The Mind's I (Hofstadter, Dennet)