From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Mon Sep 05 08:38:54 2005 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Mon, 05 Sep 2005 08:38:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.52) id 1ECJ3e-0002JX-6i for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Mon, 05 Sep 2005 08:38:54 -0700 Received: from wproxy.gmail.com ([64.233.184.202]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.52) id 1ECJ3Z-0002JQ-D5 for lojban-beginners@chain.digitalkingdom.org; Mon, 05 Sep 2005 08:38:54 -0700 Received: by wproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id i30so696747wra for ; Mon, 05 Sep 2005 08:38:48 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; b=J8qTKRIR24ObtuWBS8DzQVi2SRtN/kGpMu8F6j2cvI0II4FC5C3mTo3X/eFa7xvDIBSgnExw/QJlnXJoim5PTFp26qn8VN37tf9M/hZSwYoV+VPfTBYxqW8Oc5gUqLbo1zHHcXGoEreiC8QPRgke5nhWGx/PyBqUzo5JbguzPr0= Received: by 10.54.32.69 with SMTP id f69mr3762109wrf; Mon, 05 Sep 2005 08:31:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.54.140.6 with HTTP; Mon, 5 Sep 2005 08:31:55 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 5 Sep 2005 11:31:55 -0400 From: Matt Arnold To: lojban-beginners@chain.digitalkingdom.org Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: On Constructed Languages In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_8104_29181104.1125934315538" References: X-Spam-Score: -2.4 (--) X-archive-position: 1962 X-Approved-By: matt.mattarn@gmail.com X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@chain.digitalkingdom.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@chain.digitalkingdom.org X-original-sender: matt.mattarn@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@chain.digitalkingdom.org X-list: lojban-beginners ------=_Part_8104_29181104.1125934315538 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Different languages excel at different purposes. Many aesthetic languages= =20 exist only to evoke an exotic culture such as Tolkein's Elvish languages. A= =20 lot of languages on Langmaker.com are only a handful= =20 of words to flesh out a fantasy world in a novel. Many of the authors of=20 logical languages or international auxiliary languages have planned and=20 conceptualized their first principles of design but only developed a=20 fraction of the grammar and vocabulary they need. There are few languages= =20 that can be called mature and complete, with a sufficiently robust and=20 flexible grammar or a sufficiently thorough vocabulary to actually sustain= =20 the universe of human discourse. For instance, there was one man who decide= d=20 to raise his infant child as a native Klingon speaker but gave up quickly= =20 because there were no words for everyday household items. Here's a list of= =20 conlang "test" sentences:=20 http://www.lojban.org/tiki/tiki-index.php?page=3DConlang%20Test%20Sentences As for Esperanto, it's a worthy and respectable language, and it's the=20 language you should learn if your purpose is to speak a conlang with as man= y=20 people as possible. I personally dislike the fact that it's an amalgamation= =20 of only European languages. Esperanto is insufficiently alien, strange, or= =20 modernized for my tastes. I chose Lojban for its thorough speakability,=20 which Esperanto shares, but mainly I chose Lojban for its systematic=20 functional elegance. More than any other complete language, Lojban can trul= y=20 claim to be *engineered*. As far as I know, the IRC lojban channel is the only Lojban forum in which= =20 it is appropriate to discuss things other than Lojban in the English=20 language. But you can discuss anything while speaking Lojban on any Lojban= =20 forum. -epkat On 9/5/05, Naomi K wrote: >=20 > Heyaz > Excuse me if I sound n00bish but only since my learning of Lojban have I= =20 > taken notice of the wonderful world of contructed languages....Esperanto,= =20 > Ido, Glosa, Novial etc........ I am frankly amazed at the amount of=20 > languages; it really is fascinating, although I am not what I would consi= der=20 > a 'hardcore' linguist or anything of the kind. What do you Lojbanists thi= nk=20 > of the other artificial languages? What made you get into Lojban, not the= =20 > easier, more mainstream Esperanto? Do any of you speak in other construct= ed=20 > languages? >=20 > I was impressed by the description of Lojban on Conlangs.... > Designed by others as a continuation of Loglan, *Lojban > * (its name is a contraction for "Logical Language" in Lojban) is the mos= t=20 > professional and thought-provoking of the modern logical languages, with = a=20 > fascinating methodology for deriving its root words from Arabic, Chinese,= =20 > English, Hindi, Russian and Spanish. Extensive information is available= =20 > on-line. For the sheer joy of it, you should check out how Tolkien's Teng= war=20 > alphabet can provide "a romantic orthography for Lojban". >=20 > By the way, which mailing list (if any) is for miscellaneous,=20 > everyday-life kinda discussion? I would be interested in joining that too= =20 > (although that would defeat the purpose of a Lojban mailing list in the= =20 > first place, eh ;-) ) >=20 > mi'e .nei,omis. > ------=_Part_8104_29181104.1125934315538 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline    Different languages excel at different purposes. Many aesthetic languages exist only to evoke an exotic culture such as Tolkein's Elvish languages. A lot of languages on Langmaker.com are only a handful of words to flesh out a fantasy world in a novel. Many of the authors of logical languages or international auxiliary languages have planned and conceptualized their first principles of design but only developed a fraction of the grammar and vocabulary they need. There are few languages that can be called mature and complete, with a sufficiently robust and flexible grammar or a sufficiently thorough vocabulary to actually sustain the universe of human discourse. For instance, there was one man who decided to raise his infant child as a native Klingon speaker but gave up quickly because there were no words for everyday household items. Here's a list of conlang "test" sentences: http://www.lojban.org/tiki/tiki-index.php?page=3DConlang%20Tes= t%20Sentences
   As for Esperanto, it's a worthy and respectable language, and it's the language you should learn if your purpose is to speak a conlang with as many people as possible. I personally dislike the fact that it's an amalgamation of only European languages. Esperanto is insufficiently alien, strange, or modernized for my tastes. I chose Lojban for its thorough speakability, which Esperanto shares, but mainly I chose Lojban for its systematic functional elegance. More than any other complete language, Lojban can truly claim to be *engineered*.
   As far as I know, the IRC lojban channel is the only Lojban forum in which it is appropriate to discuss things other than Lojban in the English language. But you can discuss anything while speaking Lojban on any Lojban forum.
-epkat


On 9/5/05, Naomi K <ali= en.juxtaposition@gmail.com> wrote:
Heyaz
Excuse me if I sound n00bish but only since my learning of Lojban have I taken notice of the wonderful world of contructed languages....Esperanto, Ido, Glosa, Novial etc........ I am frankly amazed = at the amount of languages; it really is fascinating, although I am not what I would consider a 'hardcore' linguist or anything of the kind. What d= o you Lojbanists think of the other artificial languages? What made you get into Lojban, not the easier, more mainstream Esperanto? Do any of you speak in other constructed languages?

I was impressed by the description of Lojban on Conlangs....
Designed by others as a continuation = of Loglan, Lojban= (its name is a contraction for "Logical Language" in Lojban) is t= he most professional and thought-provoking of the modern logical languages, with a fascinating methodology for deriving its root words from Arabic, Chinese, English, Hindi, Russian and Spanish. Extensive information is available on-line. For the sheer joy of it, you should check out how Tolkien's Tengwar alphabet can provide "a romantic orthography for Lojban".

By the way, which mailing list (if any) is for miscellaneous, everyday-life kinda discussion? I would be interested in joining that too (although that would defeat the purpose of a Lojban mailing list in the first place, eh ;-) )

mi'e .nei,omis.

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