From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Tue Sep 06 07:26:37 2005 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Tue, 06 Sep 2005 07:26:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.52) id 1ECePE-0000Yf-Ty for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Tue, 06 Sep 2005 07:26:37 -0700 Received: from zproxy.gmail.com ([64.233.162.198]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.52) id 1ECePA-0000YX-Kt for lojban-beginners@chain.digitalkingdom.org; Tue, 06 Sep 2005 07:26:36 -0700 Received: by zproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 13so802559nzp for ; Tue, 06 Sep 2005 07:26:31 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; b=IegENfY6AdxR/90Ril+MeHGP26hRrfyHQT+uAd/GFcNW7onIOeskj/7zmIhQhqUyuM0vgvgjPjmGktFaiBPtUku0cB0QmBMHZ62w1ARRsSvoLDjDCnjn17/k1IaqumaL7muawpMnSnYCh80lsHXK9FXJPjxPry/XzL1RAo5/wZc= Received: by 10.36.148.13 with SMTP id v13mr5526764nzd; Tue, 06 Sep 2005 07:26:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.36.222.64 with HTTP; Tue, 6 Sep 2005 07:26:31 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <2d3df92a050906072639f0c403@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2005 16:26:31 +0200 From: HeliodoR To: lojban-beginners@chain.digitalkingdom.org Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: three-letter gismu? In-Reply-To: <431D5994.8070009@gulik.co.nz> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_11067_3275262.1126016791594" References: <431D5994.8070009@gulik.co.nz> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-archive-position: 1987 X-Approved-By: exitconsole@gmail.com X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@chain.digitalkingdom.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@chain.digitalkingdom.org X-original-sender: exitconsole@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@chain.digitalkingdom.org X-list: lojban-beginners ------=_Part_11067_3275262.1126016791594 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline la maikyl. pu ciska di'e > coi rodo. >=20 > This is an idea I had. I'm not proposing anything nor am I going to run > off and design my own language quite yet :-). >=20 > One of the weak points of lojban in my eyes is that there are 5-letter > gismu, 4 and 3-letter rafsi based on those gismu, and then 2 or 3-letter > cmavo. Many of the cmavo are the same as some of the rafsi, and you need > to learn not only all the gismu but also their rafsi versions. It's > quite an irregular system. >=20 > Was there ever a proposal to have a plain, regular 3-letter system for > everything - gismu, rafsi and cmavo? There should be enough words - take > na=EFvely for example only CVC combinations (consonent-vowel-consonent) - > assuming we use, say, 20 consonents and 5 vowels, we could form a > vocabulary of 20*5*20 =3D 2000 words. This compares well to lojban's 1400 > or so gismu and however many cmavo. >=20 > This way, you could have exactly the same words for gismu and rafsi, and > sentences would always be written in 3-letter blocks. >=20 > Michael. Not a bad idea. Though it some problematic points... Having different forms for words - according to length and letter order - i= s=20 a useful tool to give the listener/reader a hint what kind of word that might be. Imagine You don't know English and try to guess what 'teacher' means. You= =20 look at the end of the expression and thus You can tell that it is something (most=20 likely a person) teaching. (Though English has awfully ugly exceptions like 'chamber' - a thing that= =20 does 'chamb'? .oi.u'i) And that's a phenomenon I would call really widespread: the Hungarian name= =20 of my people 'Hungarians' is "magyar" which comes from the very Old-Old-Old-Hungarian=20 "monyer" [monier written Lojbanicly] meaning "speaking man". BTW, could someone tell me what= =20 "English" means? Oh, and the "however many cmavo" are more than a thousand, so the=20 consonant-vowel-consonant combo is not usable anyway. (.uinai) mi'e .xili,odor. ------=_Part_11067_3275262.1126016791594 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline
la maikyl. pu ciska di'e
coi rodo.

This is an idea= I had. I'm not proposing anything nor am I going to run
off and design = my own language quite yet :-).

One of the weak points of lojban in my eyes is that there are 5-let= ter
gismu, 4 and 3-letter rafsi based on those gismu, and then 2 or 3-le= tter
cmavo. Many of the cmavo are the same as some of the rafsi, and you= need
to learn not only all the gismu but also their rafsi versions. It's
= quite an irregular system.

Was there ever a proposal to have a plain= , regular 3-letter system for
everything - gismu, rafsi and cmavo? There= should be enough words - take
na=EFvely for example only CVC combinations (consonent-vowel-consonent)= -
assuming we use, say, 20 consonents and 5 vowels, we could form a
= vocabulary of 20*5*20 =3D 2000 words. This compares well to lojban's 1400 or so gismu and however many cmavo.

This way, you could have exactly= the same words for gismu and rafsi, and
sentences would always be writt= en in 3-letter blocks.

Michael.
 
Not a bad idea. Though it some problematic points...
Having different forms for words - according to length and letter orde= r - is a useful tool
to give the listener/reader a hint what kind of word that might b= e.
Imagine You don't know English and try to guess what 'teacher' means. = You look at the
end of the expression and thus You can tell that it is something = (most likely a person) teaching.
(Though English has awfully ugly exceptions like 'chamber' - a thing t= hat does 'chamb'? .oi.u'i)
And that's a phenomenon I would call really widespread: the Hunga= rian name of my people
'Hungarians' is "magyar" which comes from the very Old-= Old-Old-Hungarian "monyer" [monier
written Lojbanicly] meaning "speaking man". BTW, could someo= ne tell me what "English" means?
 
Oh, and the "however many cmavo" are more than a thousand, s= o the consonant-vowel-consonant
combo is not usable anyway. (.uinai)
 
mi'e .xili,odor.
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