From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Wed Nov 16 14:15:34 2005 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Wed, 16 Nov 2005 14:15:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.54) id 1EcVYz-0007wi-SF for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Wed, 16 Nov 2005 14:15:33 -0800 Received: from dionysos.oderland.com ([213.115.211.26]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.54) id 1EcVYx-0007wX-HM for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Wed, 16 Nov 2005 14:15:33 -0800 Received: from handgran by dionysos.oderland.com with local (Exim 4.52) id 1EcVYY-0001n1-7J for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Wed, 16 Nov 2005 23:15:06 +0100 Received: from 85.226.150.186 ([85.226.150.186]) (SquirrelMail authenticated user sunnan@handgranat.org) by handgranat.org with HTTP; Wed, 16 Nov 2005 23:15:06 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <1880.85.226.150.186.1132179306.squirrel@handgranat.org> In-Reply-To: References: Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2005 23:15:06 +0100 (CET) Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: A ranking system for Lojban speaking proficiency? From: sunnan@handgranat.org To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Importance: Normal X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - dionysos.oderland.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - lojban.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [32082 32082] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - handgranat.org X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Spam-Score: -1.6 (-) X-archive-position: 2577 X-Approved-By: sunnan@handgranat.org X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: sunnan@handgranat.org Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners Note: The ELO system itself is no longer used as is for chess ratings. Both USCF and FIDE have switched to logistic distribution-based formulas. Another flaw with this setup is that it's a worst-of-both-worlds-kind of scenario with subjective judgement coupled with a complex statistical system. A third is that people are unlikely to correctly judge the other persons speaking "skill". I often either hold back (to be better understood), or the opposite, go out on deep water, linguistically. About the idea of rating lojban skill in general: .i'enaisai Count me out. It scares me and I find it tasteless and elitistic. This might be a knee-jerk reaction from my behalf, but I just don't like this idea. I don't mind being rated in chess (even though I'm at less than 1200, and sinking) but lojban is art. This is just my (emotionally based) opinion, YMMV. If anyone wants to know how far they've gotten with lojban, they can: * consider how much vocabulary they know and use * consider how well they understand written and spoken lojban * consider how many grammatical "features" they know and use -- how far they've made it through CLL and LFB It's probably easier to measure yourself than someone else. mi'e snan