From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Mon Nov 28 07:40:23 2005 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Mon, 28 Nov 2005 10:24:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.54) id 1Egl79-00070K-81 for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Mon, 28 Nov 2005 07:40:23 -0800 Received: from zproxy.gmail.com ([64.233.162.192]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.54) id 1Egl74-00070D-13 for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Mon, 28 Nov 2005 07:40:23 -0800 Received: by zproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id n1so2461324nzf for ; Mon, 28 Nov 2005 07:40:16 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=DY8W96+anVmKSzsAFZ4j2e6X4zTG25c7AXZWcZ95EOI2EOZ70uRYnIqdWQrNRVORtyEdtWE1PnVaalhAFds59xA1kb9iaHiJR6SihrcE+QU2WYKrWh39Ga82e04w+GtJVJFDG2o8U1Bfejq+q5Pt2VY/jFB24SUCHRNiaaN6q8A= Received: by 10.65.61.11 with SMTP id o11mr4515887qbk; Mon, 28 Nov 2005 07:40:16 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.64.204.13 with HTTP; Mon, 28 Nov 2005 07:40:16 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <26506d300511280740k195abf76o@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 16:40:16 +0100 From: Thomas White To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: questions about questions In-Reply-To: <2d3df92a0511280645i24310fd2ga93e5b9be94cc067@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by Ecartis Content-Disposition: inline References: <26506d300511280238g762086b4o@mail.gmail.com> <2d3df92a0511280645i24310fd2ga93e5b9be94cc067@mail.gmail.com> X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) X-archive-position: 2712 X-Approved-By: rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: winterwhite9257@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners .i ki'esai darves. .ui mi pu cusku so'a le di'u drage'a [happy] I expressed almost-all the afore-mentioned right-type-grammar (uh oh... let's not get ahead of ourselves and I think I just painted myself into a corner with this sentence. Actually, I have a gut feeling that it's supposed to be two bridi or something. {so'a le di'u [which has the property (ka) drage'a]} has to be constructed as a separate or nested bridi somehow, no? Ah, wait.... shouldn't I be putting a {poi} or {noi} somewhere in there? [the afore-mentioned, which incidentally has so'a drage'a properties] .oi help! beginner's gone and painted himself into a logico-linguistic corner!!! Should it be: .ui mi pu cusku so'a le di'u noi drage'a .oicai I gotta stop now.) On 28/11/05, HeliodoR wrote: > > > .i mi puzi tcidu le vomo'o .e le mumo'o pe la lyfybys. > > > > I have recently read the fourth-section and fifth-section of the LFB > > Have You read the fourth section of something totally unknown > and the fifth section of LfB? If not, You will need > {.i mi puzi tcidu lo vomo'o jo'u lo mumo'o pe lyfyby.} instead. > > .ije mi terpreti di'e > > > > and I ask the following: > > I think You mean {.i ji'a} "and." > {je} is for logical connection, but here it is not important > that You're really doing both (reading and asking). > > .i xu la'edi'e mintu soi vo'a vo'e > > > > is-true? the referrentofthefollowing is the same and vice-versa? > > There's no value given to {vo'e}. :) > Actually, {soi vo'a vo'e} is not exactly "vice versa" in every > case. In the next few sections it will become clear that VOhA > cmavo refer back to sumti of the current sentence. > Maybe You should say > {.i xu la'edi'e mintu la'ede'e} > "is the referent of the following utterance the same as that of > a remote utterance?" > > .i le tcika du li xo > > > > the time = ? > > Almost perfect, only it isn't {li xo} what You need, > but {xo}: > {.i le tcika du xo} > Although grammatical correctness doesn't always > guarantee the efficiency of communication. o_O > By this sentence the listener(s) cannot know if > You're talking about the current time, the time > when You will go out for a walk or the time that > Your friend bought a dog. Therefore > {.i lo ca tcika du xo} is more geek-proof. > > .ija ma tcika ti > > > > what time this? > > {ma tcika ti} is a correct, but kind of clumsy way > to do it. {ti} signs something You can show, or > You can point to. In this case You're pointing to > an *event*, doing what most "pro" people would > claim wrong. > The standard question is {.i ma ca tcika}. > > Hope I could help, > mi'e darves.