From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Sat Dec 10 12:21:30 2005 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Sat, 10 Dec 2005 17:04:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.54) id 1ElBDm-0007pp-ER for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Sat, 10 Dec 2005 12:21:30 -0800 Received: from smtp.mail.umich.edu ([141.211.93.160] helo=skycaptain.mr.itd.umich.edu) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.54) id 1ElBDi-0007ph-Al for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Sat, 10 Dec 2005 12:21:30 -0800 Received: FROM galaxian.gpcc.itd.umich.edu (galaxian.gpcc.itd.umich.edu [141.211.2.217]) BY skycaptain.mr.itd.umich.edu ID 439B38C3.D983E.22818 ; 10 Dec 2005 15:21:24 -0500 Date: Sat, 10 Dec 2005 15:21:23 -0500 (EST) From: Alex Joseph Martini X-X-Sender: alexjm@galaxian.gpcc.itd.umich.edu To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: Possesives in lojban In-Reply-To: <439B28F1.2080404@mail.ru> Message-ID: References: <439B28F1.2080404@mail.ru> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) X-archive-position: 2735 X-Approved-By: jkominek@miranda.org X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: alexjm@umich.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners I believe you need the terminator ku, as in le le ninmu ku cukta. The word cu indicates that the next word is the selbri, which is not the case here. Ku marks the end of a sumti. The ambiguity is not obvious with a two word pair, but consider the phrase le le gerku ninmu cukta. Here, it is not clear if le gerku ninmu modifies le cukta, or if it should be le gerku modifying le ninmu cukta. The problem is that it is unclear where one group ends and the other begins. This is where the ku comes in; it ends one sumti group so that there is no ambiguity. (Sorry about the weird vocabulary in examples, I don't know quite enough gismu to say much intelligent. I have never heard of a dog woman's book either...) See the section on terminators of chapter 6 in Lojban for Beginners for more of these terminators -- there are quite a few of them. http://ptolemy.tlg.uci.edu/~opoudjis/lojbanbrochure/lessons/less6.html#less6terminators mu'o mi'e .alex On Sat, 10 Dec 2005, Dmitry wrote: > Hi, everybody, nice to talk with you. A week ago I began to learn Lojban > again, after a two years pause (-; > So, I have simple question. > > There is an exercise on possessives, convert "pe" to nested form > le cukta pe le ninmu --> > > I offered: > le le ninmu cu cukta > > Is it wrong? Answers page says "You can't do this (for now): le le ninmu > cukta is ambiguous.". But how about "cu"? > > > -- > keigu nezumi. > > > > > > >