From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Tue Feb 07 11:20:53 2006 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Tue, 07 Feb 2006 11:20:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1F6YOS-0007mO-OV for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Tue, 07 Feb 2006 11:20:52 -0800 Received: from wproxy.gmail.com ([64.233.184.198]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1F6YOP-0007mD-Rw for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Tue, 07 Feb 2006 11:20:52 -0800 Received: by wproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id i30so1321273wra for ; Tue, 07 Feb 2006 11:20:48 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=n+lfDeX1Mi3AmzgpHA8XvJ1BlTEAnKBVmd0dDsCflaa91D8AXu01jCq35k+0VT12lQWFszPDEKeoPVAu/3i1yNO88B7kuzsUA+ASSFprRvP1WRMg46xyYgsTpA3jE+UotFyP7swf3q/sCVcF3JbNB1NmasedKlufsIITItLYpSE= Received: by 10.54.122.20 with SMTP id u20mr6874903wrc; Tue, 07 Feb 2006 11:20:47 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.54.126.8 with HTTP; Tue, 7 Feb 2006 11:20:47 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <925d17560602071120j3164d940i2cb6267ef7b14343@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 7 Feb 2006 16:20:47 -0300 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?= To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: Lojban Reader In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by Ecartis Content-Disposition: inline References: <2d3df92a0602060817s25d1da84t96c51ccfd901073c@mail.gmail.com> <925d17560602061113r30badf0fj288331d0b5a0e00c@mail.gmail.com> <2d3df92a0602070620o562a2a63hc33d292e3c949184@mail.gmail.com> X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) X-archive-position: 3055 X-Approved-By: jjllambias@gmail.com X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: jjllambias@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners On 2/7/06, Matt Arnold wrote: > As for the use of {ti}, the text has a location in 3D > space-- on the screen. Words on a paper are nothing more than an arrangement > of ink molecules. Why should an arrangement of light in a physical screen > not qualify as pointable? Well, Lojban tries (not always succesfully) to separate the physical object, be it ink molecules or light in a screen, from the words represented by those marks. {ti} would be used to refer to the physical stuff, and {dei} to refer to the words. In {dei jufra}, {dei} has the same referent when I write it and when you read it. If I say {ti barna lo mi vidni} you'd have to understand that {ti} refers to something I am seeing on my screen, not to someting you can see on yours. I don't know if this distinction is sustainable, people seem to break it as often as not, and in any case Lojban is not always consistent about it. mu'o mi'e xorxes