From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Sun Mar 19 18:32:11 2006 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Sun, 19 Mar 2006 18:32:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1FLABm-0001aC-Qt for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 18:32:10 -0800 Received: from [166.82.175.165] (helo=blackcat.ixazon.lan) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1FLABl-0001a3-F5 for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Sun, 19 Mar 2006 18:32:10 -0800 Received: by blackcat.ixazon.lan (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 737151C98; Mon, 20 Mar 2006 02:32:23 +0000 (UTC) From: Pierre Abbat To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: My first two sentences - are they correct so far? Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2006 21:32:18 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.8.3 References: <1225392006.20060314082022@stapelberg.de> <2d3df92a0603171020v583ea230m7ab9f5ebfdf38e40@mail.gmail.com> <1702776135.20060319112428@stapelberg.de> In-Reply-To: <1702776135.20060319112428@stapelberg.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200603192132.20880.phma@phma.optus.nu> X-Spam-Score: -2.4 (--) X-archive-position: 3122 X-Approved-By: phma@phma.optus.nu X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: phma@phma.optus.nu Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners On Sunday 19 March 2006 05:24, Michael Stapelberg wrote: > What means "loi"? Why not just "le"? And what "be"? And where do > I find such words (I've looked into the Lojban for Beginners-lesson > and the jbovlaste)? {be} is in jbovlaste: http://jbovlaste.lojban.org/dict/be . The gloss isn't much help, as {be} has no equivalent in any other language that I know of except Loglan, so here's an explanation: You have a bridi: {ti mitre li ci le ni clani}. This does not need the word {be}. There are three constructions in which you need {be}. One is when preceded by an article to make a sumti: {le mitre be li ci bei le ni clani}. The other is when used on the left side of a tanru: {ti mitre be li ci bei le ni clani be'o since}. The third one, I think, has something to do with a remark inserted in a quotation, and you don't have to worry about it now. {be'o} can be elided in some cases, such as when the seltau ends with a number: {ti mitre be li ci since}. {loi} is the indefinite mass article. {le} is the definite individual article. {lei blusfani cu grake li ze .i le blusfani cu milgra li reno} - all the mosquitoes together vs. each mosquito. phma