From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Wed May 31 08:25:47 2006 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Wed, 31 May 2006 08:25:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.62) (envelope-from ) id 1FlSZu-0006UM-QW for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Wed, 31 May 2006 08:25:46 -0700 Received: from nz-out-0102.google.com ([64.233.162.197]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.62) (envelope-from ) id 1FlSZr-0006UE-Lu for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Wed, 31 May 2006 08:25:46 -0700 Received: by nz-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id 14so56663nzn for ; Wed, 31 May 2006 08:25:42 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=LNgCNVob32Z2XiUAHwPKyEkIrAdquXhKcSrkePAmwtopOnLBFl/N4NFLGUnBDx3tlB5iN5eIaXHwpHdKeI8ybBWVO/HIBORkZJAys88ldG49M7xmME6OWqjVXv1/f6vqiejOJeRwOqkaW77Sq88W0u9T8nnz1JFUgY7HH3cvm9s= Received: by 10.65.224.5 with SMTP id b5mr298124qbr; Wed, 31 May 2006 08:25:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.65.237.19 with HTTP; Wed, 31 May 2006 08:25:39 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <925d17560605310825s9cab2a0qe5e05bbc540864b9@mail.gmail.com> Date: Wed, 31 May 2006 12:25:39 -0300 From: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?=" To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: Word seperation In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) X-archive-position: 3206 X-Approved-By: jjllambias@gmail.com X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: jjllambias@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners On 5/30/06, Alex Martini wrote: > When streams of sylables are (formally) broken up into words, is > stress accent involved? Yes, stress is necessary to be able to tell where a BRIVLA ends. Stress is totally irrelevant in CMENE, and you never _need_ to stress CMAVO (in some relatively few cases cmavo can't be stressed, but in general stress is free for cmavo too), but for BRIVLA it is essential to get it right. > I'm looking at cases like {dabroda} where > both {dabro da} and {da broda} form two words with allowed > structures. The only thing is that in the first (incorrect) example, > the stress would be off. That's probably the simplest example, but there are plenty of others. {klamAda} is a fu'ivla, {klAmada} is {klama da}. {blablablAbla} is a single lujvo, {blAblablAbla} is the tanru {blabla blabla}, etc. > Would this cause problems parsing Lojban as > spoken by speakers from languages that don't use stress accent or use > only very weak accents, such as Japanese? For humans probably not, because we use a lot of other clues to break speech into words. If the "correct" parsing makes no sense, we automatically explore other possibilities. For a mechanical parser, I suppose it will depend on how intelligent it is made. I'm not sure stress will be the worst thing to worry Japanese speakers though, given the consonant clusters Lojban has. Lojban was not designed to be particularly easy to pronounce. mu'o mi'e xorxes