From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Tue Jun 13 21:48:04 2006 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Tue, 13 Jun 2006 21:48:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.62) (envelope-from ) id 1FqNIS-0007QJ-Hg for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Tue, 13 Jun 2006 21:48:04 -0700 Received: from wx-out-0102.google.com ([66.249.82.195]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.62) (envelope-from ) id 1FqNIO-0007QC-UQ for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Tue, 13 Jun 2006 21:48:04 -0700 Received: by wx-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id s18so30867wxc for ; Tue, 13 Jun 2006 21:48:00 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; b=slvjUEafVAgN/yF3kBIpAp3RD3Tibatfl278Kd2QPyjeH7ypFvsxRgloQB29wB4HTbxzFnHsnPE3poWsfmDYi0s+1hMytieleP6bQESfWs6hTJEh0nUQmeM2izBzMLhYxMeyZwshGxBeSDNsHs2LhDxp4kVBocGBjuf8pYGHSc4= Received: by 10.70.124.1 with SMTP id w1mr323610wxc; Tue, 13 Jun 2006 21:47:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.123.13 with HTTP; Tue, 13 Jun 2006 21:47:57 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <5ccdc7530606132147m251e76bpb04e308226b976ec@mail.gmail.com> Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2006 00:47:57 -0400 From: "la cuncuxnas." To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: Totally new In-Reply-To: <0BC8B169-9DFD-47AF-AAC4-9EC545CFF8F9@umich.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_42193_27534171.1150260477101" References: <448c7d03.0257091b.6491.ffffea1b@mx.gmail.com> <4517AFBE-23B7-435C-A0B2-92B3730CDEBD@cordite.com> <448E9012.4060109@gmail.com> <0BC8B169-9DFD-47AF-AAC4-9EC545CFF8F9@umich.edu> X-Spam-Score: -2.4 (--) X-archive-position: 3252 X-Approved-By: thatskotkid@gmail.com X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: thatskotkid@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners ------=_Part_42193_27534171.1150260477101 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline I know that lately I've been working with LogFlash (though running it under a DOS emulation on my Mac is probably more trouble than it's worth), and when I'm not directly studying that way I try to take things I've already said in conversations and translate them into Lojban. Usually only when it occurs to me that I could say whatever it is. When I'm online, I translate my away messages and the titles of my blog posts. Whatever I can do to make the language useful without pissing my non-Lojbanist friends off, basically. mi nelci la lojban .iku'i lo nu tavla fo ri cu ru'inai nandu mu'omi'e cuncuxna On 6/13/06, Alex Martini wrote: > > Since it looks like there are a nice number of new Lojbanists, I'd > like to throw out a few general language learning tips. I've studied > Spanish and Mandarin Chinese in a classroom setting, and a bunch of > others non-seriously on my own. Great to hear that you've decided to > pick up some Lojban! > > The two most important things in picking up a new language are > speaking and thinking. Speaking means taking the new Lojban you know, > and putting them together on the fly into sentences. It's not the > same thing as carefully composing sentences with your textbook and > wordlists handy; that's composition. Speaking is where you don't care > so much about errors, just practicing and making concrete what you know. > > The thinking comes a little later. That's where you stop using > English at all, and can actually *think* in just Lojban for a while. > This is actually the hard part, but also the part that makes you > truly fluent. For example, I have a friend who spent 4 years studying > French but never learned to think in French. She still can't carry on > a conversation in French because it takes too long to think in > English first and then translate into French. The same is true for > Lojban -- translating things carefully is a great exercise for > building grammar skills, and translating on the fly is how you make > them things you know instead of things you've memorized. > > As for the resources, I agree with what has been put out there as > being good places to start. I'd like to add the dictionary I have, > but I really don't know where I got the original PDF from. I have my > hardcopy and the softcopy's probably around here somewhere... > > On Jun 13, 2006, at 6:14 AM, Paul Vigo wrote: > > > Tod Glenn wrote: > > > >> Greetings all, > >> > >> I just joined the list, having long been fascinated by artificial > >> or constructed languages. I've decided to take the plunge into > >> lojban. Does anyone have some suggestions on how to > >> approach learning for an absolutely raw beginner? > >> > >> ---- > >> Tod Glenn > >> todg@cordite.com > >> http://www.cordite.com > >> > > > > Hi Todd. > > > > I've just started recently as well. There's some good beginner > > resources on the lojban.org site. > > > > I'd say: > > > > * Read "what is lojban" for orientation > > * Read and do the exercises in "lojban for beginners." > > * Get yourself some kind of vocabulary drill system, a "leitner > > system" flashcard program is ideal (i've got one on my palm). > > Input (or commit) new words as you encounter them while reading > > "what is lojban" so you are being drilled on the vocab as you > > learn. > > * Get some form of word lookup tool (also got that on my palm) that > > you can quickly access so you to translate without losing the > > flow > > of thought > > * if you find yourself continually forgetting a word or concept, > > write a few sentences in lojban (using other familiar words as > > well) which you can use as a reminder of how the word or particle > > works > > * Read the reference grammar when you can be bothered, especially > > when some language issue pops up that you need a greater > > understanding of > > > > I think flashcard programs are a great way to help learn vocab. The > > difference between normal flashcard systems and "leitner" and > > related systems is that the latter schedule cards you have trouble > > learning so that you drill them more often. (This way you only > > occasionally drill familiar cards, and difficult ones come up more > > often, so you can keep a larger vocabulary in your system without > > getting flooded with things you already know well.) Let me know > > what you need as I did a lot of searching before coming up with my > > own system, and probably know of something that would suit. With > > flashcards I started out using paper, but quickly got over it. > > > > Paul Vigo > > > > > > > > ------=_Part_42193_27534171.1150260477101 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline I know that lately I've been working with LogFlash (though running it under a DOS emulation on my Mac is probably more trouble than it's worth), and when I'm not directly studying that way I try to take things I've already said in conversations and translate them into Lojban.  Usually only when it occurs to me that I could say whatever it is.  When I'm online, I translate my away messages and the titles of my blog posts.  Whatever I can do to make the language useful without pissing my non-Lojbanist friends off, basically.

mi nelci la lojban .iku'i lo nu tavla fo ri cu ru'inai nandu

mu'omi'e cuncuxna

On 6/13/06, Alex Martini <alexjm@umich.edu> wrote:
Since it looks like there are a nice number of new Lojbanists, I'd
like to throw out a few general language learning tips. I've studied
Spanish and Mandarin Chinese in a classroom setting, and a bunch of
others non-seriously on my own. Great to hear that you've decided to
pick up some Lojban!

The two most important things in picking up a new language are
speaking and thinking. Speaking means taking the new Lojban you know,
and putting them together on the fly into sentences. It's not the
same thing as carefully composing sentences with your textbook and
wordlists handy; that's composition. Speaking is where you don't care
so much about errors, just practicing and making concrete what you know.

The thinking comes a little later. That's where you stop using
English at all, and can actually *think* in just Lojban for a while.
This is actually the hard part, but also the part that makes you
truly fluent. For example, I have a friend who spent 4 years studying
French but never learned to think in French. She still can't carry on
a conversation in French because it takes too long to think in
English first and then translate into French. The same is true for
Lojban -- translating things carefully is a great exercise for
building grammar skills, and translating on the fly is how you make
them things you know instead of things you've memorized.

As for the resources, I agree with what has been put out there as
being good places to start. I'd like to add the dictionary I have,
but I really don't know where I got the original PDF from. I have my
hardcopy and the softcopy's probably around here somewhere...

On Jun 13, 2006, at 6:14 AM, Paul Vigo wrote:

> Tod Glenn wrote:
>
>> Greetings all,
>>
>> I just joined the list, having long been fascinated by artificial
>> or  constructed languages.  I've decided to take the plunge into
>> lojban.   Does anyone have some suggestions on how to
>> approach learning for an absolutely raw beginner?
>>
>> ----
>> Tod Glenn
>> todg@cordite.com
>> http://www.cordite.com
>>
>
> Hi Todd.
>
> I've just started recently as well. There's some good beginner
> resources on the lojban.org site.
>
> I'd say:
>
>    * Read "what is lojban" for orientation
>    * Read and do the exercises in "lojban for beginners."
>    * Get yourself some kind of vocabulary drill system, a "leitner
>      system" flashcard program is ideal (i've got one on my palm).
>      Input (or commit) new words as you encounter them while reading
>      "what is lojban" so you are being drilled on the vocab as you
> learn.
>    * Get some form of word lookup tool (also got that on my palm) that
>      you can quickly access so you to translate without losing the
> flow
>      of thought
>    * if you find yourself continually forgetting a word or concept,
>      write a few sentences in lojban (using other familiar words as
>      well) which you can use as a reminder of how the word or particle
>      works
>    * Read the reference grammar when you can be bothered, especially
>      when some language issue pops up that you need a greater
>      understanding of
>
> I think flashcard programs are a great way to help learn vocab. The
> difference between normal flashcard systems and "leitner" and
> related systems is that the latter schedule cards you have trouble
> learning so that you drill them more often. (This way you only
> occasionally drill familiar cards, and difficult ones come up more
> often, so you can keep a larger vocabulary in your system without
> getting flooded with things you already know well.) Let me know
> what you need as I did a lot of searching before coming up with my
> own system, and probably know of something that would suit. With
> flashcards I started out using paper, but quickly got over it.
>
> Paul Vigo
>
>




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