From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Fri Aug 11 01:40:23 2006 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Fri, 11 Aug 2006 01:40:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.62) (envelope-from ) id 1GBSYk-0007E0-7h for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Fri, 11 Aug 2006 01:40:06 -0700 Received: from nf-out-0910.google.com ([64.233.182.185]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.62) (envelope-from ) id 1GBSYb-0007DY-JV for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Fri, 11 Aug 2006 01:40:00 -0700 Received: by nf-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id a27so822134nfc for ; Fri, 11 Aug 2006 01:39:51 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; b=Jky5NwrF0ncBlaVYYAreXjcVU9epfMhsKyqhYY+XgR2q/RMUX9szLQua2uEuTkSmdt3aySk0VBAnVeMqdC6QDGMin2UeDum3jW2BmsgBn/lqgjLG+vThP6o26/Ogqie3tWzeO3i5/HhrKcG9XWedZPE1Hr/gyKZgbFPZ0lqkcJI= Received: by 10.78.170.17 with SMTP id s17mr2071135hue; Fri, 11 Aug 2006 01:39:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.78.14.9 with HTTP; Fri, 11 Aug 2006 01:39:51 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <2d3df92a0608110139r8aff0far3845e7fa2310d4a7@mail.gmail.com> Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2006 10:39:51 +0200 From: HeliodoR To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: Re^2: the articles "le" and "lo" In-Reply-To: <44DC3160.70302@freenet.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_70925_6263583.1155285591672" References: <44DC3160.70302@freenet.de> X-Spam-Score: -2.1 (--) X-archive-position: 3494 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: exitconsole@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners ------=_Part_70925_6263583.1155285591672 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline > > coi lo se cinri be la lojban. > > [Is this correct? I've tried to greet some of them who are interested in > lojban. What binds tighter? "se" or "be"?] First the brivla is built up (the {se} is applied), after that the internal sumti is (are) added (the {be}'s applied). So You were correct. (And hope I'm so.) :) > Okay, I want to follow your advice. If the lojban sentences in my next > emails are improvable by the use of {le} please suggest such > improvements so that I can understand the differences better. IMO understanding the differences should not cause any problem to someone who speaks English. English uses the articles "a(n)" and "the", which usually mean the same as {lo} and {le}, respectively. You've used them quite frequently in the previously quoted paragraph: "I want to follow your advice" There's a "the", that is, a {le} 'hidden' here. The indefinite version would look like "one of your advices". You may, as *anywhere* else, use {lo} as well, because it's equally true that You'd like to follow "an advice", but, for here You have a certain thing in mind, You *can* also use {le} in Lojban. {le} is usually just a possibility. As in the next sentence. "If the lojban sentences [...]" You think of "concrete Lojban sentences", so You can choose {le}, though You're also speaking of "some Lojban sentences", of course, so {lo} is also correct again. "[...] suggest such improvements [...]" No concrete object in the speakers mind, thus this sentence will definitely have {lo} in Lojban. Warning: abstractions (lo nu/ni/ka/za'i/zu'o/...) almost always require {lo}. a'o mi pu'i sidju do mi'e darves ------=_Part_70925_6263583.1155285591672 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline
coi lo se cinri be la lojban.

[Is this correct? I've tried to greet some of them who are interested in
lojban. What binds tighter? "se" or "be"?]
 
First the brivla is built up (the {se} is applied),
after that the internal sumti is (are) added (the {be}'s applied).
So You were correct. (And hope I'm so.) :)

 
Okay, I want to follow your advice. If the lojban sentences in my next
emails are improvable by the use of {le} please suggest such
improvements so that I can understand the differences better.
 
IMO understanding the differences should not cause any problem to
someone who speaks English. English uses the articles "a(n)" and "the",
which usually mean the same as {lo} and {le}, respectively.
You've used them quite frequently in the previously quoted paragraph:
"I want to follow your advice"
There's a "the", that is, a {le} 'hidden' here. The indefinite version would
look like "one of your advices". You may, as *anywhere* else, use {lo}
as well, because it's equally true that You'd like to follow "an advice",
but, for here You have a certain thing in mind, You *can* also use {le} in
Lojban. {le} is usually just a possibility. As in the next sentence.
"If the lojban sentences [...]"
You think of "concrete Lojban sentences", so You can choose {le},
though You're also speaking of "some Lojban sentences", of course, so
{lo} is also correct again.
"[...] suggest such improvements [...]"
No concrete object in the speakers mind, thus this sentence will
definitely have {lo} in Lojban.
 
Warning: abstractions (lo nu/ni/ka/za'i/zu'o/...) almost always require
{lo}.
 
a'o mi pu'i sidju do
mi'e darves
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