From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Fri Dec 01 22:06:30 2006 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Fri, 01 Dec 2006 22:06:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1GqO18-000275-Aa for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Fri, 01 Dec 2006 22:06:30 -0800 Received: from nf-out-0910.google.com ([64.233.182.190]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1GqO0y-00026e-8H for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Fri, 01 Dec 2006 22:06:27 -0800 Received: by nf-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id c31so5984755nfb for ; Fri, 01 Dec 2006 22:06:19 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; b=F/HN7FxcBa35gZr+YDDrxfhQQg8/Fty+bn4nKT3B7lARCi67j34658fNSw0/0t6eJRfupw0JTQe9IX9hdUUJe/YCCA1vlha62TeIjMEsevGn+Px5Dy6Zk9ihUxp+rEx8fcOvdg+baSqU16JPv+NpUJsIwIQ+9tEUKjIEKTqMZM8= Received: by 10.49.107.3 with SMTP id j3mr17976131nfm.1165039578652; Fri, 01 Dec 2006 22:06:18 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.49.23.10 with HTTP; Fri, 1 Dec 2006 22:06:18 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <492596e80612012206t14b9fb47uad443d80d4fa37f5@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sat, 2 Dec 2006 14:06:18 +0800 From: "Wang Xuerui" To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: Learning Lojban In-Reply-To: <45710C41.8050805@mindspring.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_20817_13386874.1165039578610" References: <45710C41.8050805@mindspring.com> X-Spam-Score: -2.1 (--) X-archive-position: 3756 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: idontknw.wang@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners ------=_Part_20817_13386874.1165039578610 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline 2006/12/2, Ronald Guida : > > Hi. > > My name is Ron; I heard about Lojban and I have started to become > interested in learning it. I saw the recent post on the Lojban home > page that mentioned the difference between "learning" a language and > "acquiring" a language. > > Currently, the only language I know is English. I am trying to figure > out the best or fastest way to learn Lojban. It appears to me that the > resources don't exist yet for me to learn Lojban through natural means > (i.e. to "acquire" it), so I am wondering what is the next best thing. I found translating what you said in your native language into Lojban as fast as possible is probably the best way. Right now, I am thinking that I should study the grammatical structures > of Lojban first, before studying a bunch of vocabulary. The reason for > this is I believe children learn grammar before vocabulary. > > Consider this English sentence prototype: > "The X-ons are Y-ing in the Z." Based on grammar and word-formation heuristics, most likely X names a > set (in plural), Y is an action being carried out at present, and Z is a > location. This information creates context; the listener can use that > context to help infer what X, Y and Z are. Presumably, children who > have figured out grammar can learn new words by making inferences. > > I am thinking that I can learn Lojban grammar structures by constructing > sentence prototypes that do not contain any actual gismu or lujvo. Go through LFB first, then you can start to learn CLL. It's easy for those who are teaching themselves Lojban. For > example, ".i le X ca Y le Z". I believe Y is a connective, acting in > the present, that connects X and Z. Is this correct? No. Y is the selbri of the whole bridi. It's the relationship between X and Z. After you learned Lojban's basic grammar, it will be clear. -- Ron > > > > -- Come and see http://community.livejournal.com/lojban/ -- The Lojban Community. mi ma srera -- Anything wrong? .imu'omi'e .uang. to mi na'e nelci la .uan. toi Over, I'm Wang (I don't like Wan) ------=_Part_20817_13386874.1165039578610 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline

2006/12/2, Ronald Guida <ronguida@mindspring.com>:
Hi.

My name is Ron; I heard about Lojban and I have started to become
interested in learning it.  I saw the recent post on the Lojban home
page that mentioned the difference between "learning" a language and
"acquiring" a language.

Currently, the only language I know is English.  I am trying to figure
out the best or fastest way to learn Lojban.  It appears to me that the
resources don't exist yet for me to learn Lojban through natural means
(i.e. to "acquire" it), so I am wondering what is the next best thing.

I found translating what you said in your native language into Lojban as fast as possible is probably the best way.

Right now, I am thinking that I should study the grammatical structures
of Lojban first, before studying a bunch of vocabulary.  The reason for
this is I believe children learn grammar before vocabulary.

Consider this English sentence prototype:
"The X-ons are Y-ing in the Z."
Based on grammar and word-formation heuristics, most likely X names a
set (in plural), Y is an action being carried out at present, and Z is a
location.  This information creates context; the listener can use that
context to help infer what X, Y and Z are.  Presumably, children who
have figured out grammar can learn new words by making inferences.

I am thinking that I can learn Lojban grammar structures by constructing
sentence prototypes that do not contain any actual gismu or lujvo.

Go through LFB first, then you can start to learn CLL. It's easy for those who are teaching themselves Lojban.

For
example, ".i le X ca Y le Z".  I believe Y is a connective, acting in
the present, that connects X and Z.  Is this correct?

No. Y is the selbri of the whole bridi. It's the relationship between X and Z. After you learned Lojban's basic grammar, it will be clear.

-- Ron






--
Come and see http://community.livejournal.com/lojban/ -- The Lojban Community.

mi ma srera -- Anything wrong?

.imu'omi'e .uang. to mi na'e nelci la .uan. toi
Over, I'm Wang (I don't like Wan) ------=_Part_20817_13386874.1165039578610--