From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Wed Apr 11 07:18:50 2007 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Wed, 11 Apr 2007 07:18:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Hbdel-0006CI-ET for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Wed, 11 Apr 2007 07:18:45 -0700 Received: from an-out-0708.google.com ([209.85.132.249]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1HbdeE-0006Bb-Td for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Wed, 11 Apr 2007 07:18:36 -0700 Received: by an-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id b8so205662ana for ; Wed, 11 Apr 2007 07:18:03 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=dngNT2qdyen4b47i/z5/QO/P632Cc+pVdoMwAetjnVfsFY1chchV5og397O2lUX49JRJDqvFFEiJKOUe3auI6Zd4M+aXP6fwQ4IT5l1N9HrldMTRruqK3qc3CD/8ACMeUwGFrW3F/F3/LFvVfEzgzusO97nBV9RxjeNTxUDbP/A= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=FhztY6e2m7AsU5doJnS7uDy9ygk3jhimBjlVwH0Ku7vvMQwpdHwV155k/agYhigjUGSTWgYZXTJyM0Rrw3m/jigQe2c+vDOOi3DeVYgBjjNu8PdN7oiZDQXvfeZErs9suA+X5L1LD6nU7lGWiQV6pI23Qr6mLHfCheoi/mRN1K8= Received: by 10.100.198.11 with SMTP id v11mr436328anf.1176301083449; Wed, 11 Apr 2007 07:18:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.100.42.16 with HTTP; Wed, 11 Apr 2007 07:18:03 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <925d17560704110718l5e92666fwbf1a735e857953b6@mail.gmail.com> Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2007 11:18:03 -0300 From: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?=" To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: Now what? In-Reply-To: <745242.37942.qm@web88002.mail.re2.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <745242.37942.qm@web88002.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Score-Int: -25 X-Spam-Bar: -- X-archive-position: 4213 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: jjllambias@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners On 4/11/07, ANDREW PIEKARSKI wrote: > > - lo kadnygu'e > - le pongu'e > - la jugygu'e > > Which article is the right one? There is no "the" right one here. They are all grammatically correct, and they can all be used, with different effects. {la} indicates that what follows is a name. It basically ignores the meaning of the word that follows, it only uses the word to name something that may or may not have anything to do with what the word means. Sometimes the word used has a meaning of its own, but it plays no significant role in the use of the word as a name. Compare with English names such as Brown, Sitting Bull, United States, etc. They are English words, they may or may not describe what they name, but whether or not they describe what they name is basically irrelevant. What's important is that they are conventionally used to name someone or something. {le} uses the word that follows as a description. In this case you do care about the meaning, but the meaning is used as a means to help your interlocutor identify the thing you have in mind. {lo} doesn't really add anything. Here the proper meaning of the word is central, and {lo} is only needed as a syntactic device, to convert it from a brivla into a sumti. mu'o mi'e xorxes