From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Thu Apr 12 08:33:38 2007 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Thu, 12 Apr 2007 08:33:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Hc1Im-0001rA-Dr for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Thu, 12 Apr 2007 08:33:38 -0700 Received: from nz-out-0506.google.com ([64.233.162.235]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Hc1Id-0001qs-Th for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Thu, 12 Apr 2007 08:33:35 -0700 Received: by nz-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id s1so468346nze for ; Thu, 12 Apr 2007 08:33:21 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:sender:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references:x-google-sender-auth; b=YGeQsB5/UAx46oBN6R6dJ5X4kXnuUQAB7KIMY+fFlh+QicbHG56IS1S1nWBSa3GHSjoEanUEKKcNGS0zeuvOeDuDkpuGUUhTA91reGKEtzvF1z08LAorWND81kHFBNJcmry0w2wYt+9Ef52HKWenhVdyONCO0jiWDv7KVZT3VHA= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:message-id:date:from:sender:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references:x-google-sender-auth; b=G/PhFyNnDKPDY+nwxqgzu2D8hmEFCcwGTrQoPqjItwEgF+G4BxcTjtSrdmQZK7SXYUKu4xrTxyc5j3AajwKuyNnsatwGOqhXGoa72Yg1LTy0vcChKih1xsm3TxdwHf64KtGY3D6V+iT7bjamWWc7Aux4rqHxa1fnk8VjET5o7xM= Received: by 10.114.15.1 with SMTP id 1mr789912wao.1176392001304; Thu, 12 Apr 2007 08:33:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.114.109.5 with HTTP; Thu, 12 Apr 2007 08:33:21 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <12d58c160704120833k5a5f29d6xdea35906c92aa2d3@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2007 11:33:21 -0400 From: "komfo,amonan" To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: Now what? In-Reply-To: <56758.66692.qm@web88006.mail.re2.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_21522_6220199.1176392001227" References: <56758.66692.qm@web88006.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-Google-Sender-Auth: bf9a03d8b9785e28 X-Spam-Score: -2.0 X-Spam-Score-Int: -19 X-Spam-Bar: -- X-archive-position: 4232 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: komfoamonan@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners ------=_Part_21522_6220199.1176392001227 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline On 4/12/07, ANDREW PIEKARSKI wrote: > > But in the real world, unless I am writing about alternate universes, I > have only one specific Canada in mind - so surely it must be "le kadnygu'e"? Not quite. In the sentence I used before (lo kadnygu'e cu lamji lo mergu'e), the sense of 'Canada' is quite clear. But imagine someone leaving Canada & returning years later, finding it changed, and saying, "The Canada I remember has ceased to exist." I would go with le there: le kadnygu'e poi mi morji fi ke'a cu pu co'u zasti In the real world, Canada is what it is. But in people's minds, there are different Canadas. You could use 'la' there too. As far as "la kadnygu'e" is concerned, "kadnygu'e" would have to be a name, > but section 4.8 of the CLL says "Names may have almost any form, but > always end in a consonant". So how can it be acceptable? Take a look at 6:2.6 -2.11. la/lai/la'i can take a selbri as well as a cmene. But a cmene can only take la/lai/la'i, whereas a selbri can take any of the gadri (lo, le, la, loi, &c.). The restriction is one-way. mu'o mi'e komfo,amonan ------=_Part_21522_6220199.1176392001227 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline On 4/12/07, ANDREW PIEKARSKI <totus@rogers.com> wrote:
But in the real world, unless I am writing about alternate universes, I have only one specific Canada in mind - so surely it must be "le kadnygu'e"?

Not quite. In the sentence I used before (lo kadnygu'e cu lamji lo mergu'e), the sense of 'Canada' is quite clear. But imagine someone leaving Canada & returning years later, finding it changed, and saying, "The Canada I remember has ceased to exist." I would go with le there:

le kadnygu'e poi mi morji fi ke'a cu pu co'u zasti

In the real world, Canada is what it is. But in people's minds, there are different Canadas. You could use 'la' there too.

As far as "la kadnygu'e" is concerned, "kadnygu'e" would have to be a name, but section 4.8 of the CLL says "Names may have almost any form, but always end in a consonant".  So how can it be acceptable?

Take a look at 6:2.6 -2.11. la/lai/la'i can take a selbri as well as a cmene. But a cmene can only take la/lai/la'i, whereas a selbri can take any of the gadri (lo, le, la, loi, &c.). The restriction is one-way.

mu'o mi'e komfo,amonan


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