From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Fri Apr 13 23:03:44 2007 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Fri, 13 Apr 2007 23:03:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1HcbMN-0005ow-GE for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Fri, 13 Apr 2007 23:03:44 -0700 Received: from web56406.mail.re3.yahoo.com ([216.252.111.85]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with smtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1HcbMB-0005of-UW for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Fri, 13 Apr 2007 23:03:42 -0700 Received: (qmail 18370 invoked by uid 60001); 14 Apr 2007 06:03:25 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Message-ID; b=QGeO4wtD1lS+9eh6vFrjDzY/dO07SONBMRVGPxr9n3LkptbNLH9oO3DzpilNfzqdmQhwNCiSRYk2YI4bW200Zkg6rtvzIMKvvXe+IYil7hyAQEHuqSA8VLBZRZNUmXxe/+1dJKyre9dK+qVANQSWypChl63bF3eLWG6DLVzCe94=; X-YMail-OSG: H6MaLoMVM1lsrGaqLXlfkXx8.k1rBr09XRI6fhwfjtodhP2.tZBtQoyo1b0Qzm3qByoxVszmAytABv8BO6yiFjOrpQ5ySV0Bhp6ZRrYYgnKAwHuWmv9fK_UytANt15rY7fnMSVPQarGAbWC4ydSNK_E5Ng-- Received: from [75.2.90.54] by web56406.mail.re3.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 13 Apr 2007 23:03:25 PDT Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2007 23:03:25 -0700 (PDT) From: Nathaniel Krause Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: Now what? To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org In-Reply-To: <426987.29483.qm@web88013.mail.re2.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-997332932-1176530605=:17896" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <163370.17896.qm@web56406.mail.re3.yahoo.com> X-Spam-Score: 0.6 X-Spam-Score-Int: 6 X-Spam-Bar: / X-archive-position: 4245 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: nathanielkrause@yahoo.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners --0-997332932-1176530605=:17896 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In those books, "cmene" is used with two different (but related) senses. cmene^1 means any word that follows "la" or "lai" (and possibly a few other situations). cmene^2 means a certain type of word, one which ends in a consonant followed by a pause. For example, if I say "la cribe" then cribe is a cmene^1, but it is definitely not a cmene^2 (instead it is a brivla). In order to reduce confusion, many people now say "cmevla" for the meaning of cmene^2. However, older books still use "cmene" exclusively. mu'o mi'e .sen. ANDREW PIEKARSKI wrote: I understand....I think...trouble is, neither "Lojban for Beginners" nor the Reference Grammar even mention cmevla. In what way are cmevla different from cmene? - Andrew --- Nathaniel Krause wrote: > ANDREW PIEKARSKI wrote: What on > earth is Dot Side? I can't find the proposal > anywhere - only some commentaries about it. > > - Andrew > > The so-called Dot Side opposes the orthodox position > on the rules for forming and creating a cmevla. > According to the orthodox view, no cmevla may > contain the sounds "doi", "la", or "lai", unless > they are immediately preceded by a consonant. Thus, > Germany cannot be called {la doitclant.} and the > Dalai Lama cannot be called {la dalailaman.} > However, the advantage of the orthodox position is > that there is no need to place a pause (dot) in > between the words {doi}, {la}, or {lai} and a > cmevla. For instance, in the phrase {.i la lojban. > mo}, there is no pause inbetween {la} and {lojban.} > > The so-called Dot Side proposes the opposite rule, > that the sounds "doi", "la", or "lai" should be > allowed in cmevla, but every cmevla must always be > preceded by a dot. Thus one could say {.i la > .lojban. mo} or {.i la .doitclant. mo} or {.i la > .dalailaman. mo}. > > Please note that, when a cmevla follows any word > besides {doi}, {la}, or {lai}, both sides agree that > there must be a pause before the cmevla. For > instance, everyone agrees that {be'e .andruv.} and > {mi'e .djan.} are correct. > > mu'o mi'e .sen. > > > --------------------------------- > Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell? > Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos. --------------------------------- Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell? Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos. --0-997332932-1176530605=:17896 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In those books, "cmene" is used with two different (but related) senses. cmene^1 means any word that follows "la" or "lai" (and possibly a few other situations). cmene^2 means a certain type of word, one which ends in a consonant followed by a pause. For example, if I say "la cribe" then cribe is a cmene^1, but it is definitely not a cmene^2 (instead it is a brivla).

In order to reduce confusion, many people now say "cmevla" for the meaning of cmene^2. However, older books still use "cmene" exclusively.

mu'o mi'e .sen.

ANDREW PIEKARSKI <totus@rogers.com> wrote:
I understand....I think...trouble is, neither "Lojban
for Beginners" nor the Reference Grammar even mention
cmevla. In what way are cmevla different from cmene?

- Andrew

--- Nathaniel Krause
wrote:

> ANDREW PIEKARSKI wrote: What on
> earth is Dot Side? I can't find the proposal
> anywhere - only some commentaries about it.
>
> - Andrew
>
> The so-called Dot Side opposes the orthodox position
> on the rules for forming and creating a cmevla.
> According to the orthodox view, no cmevla may
> contain the sounds "doi", "la", or "lai", unless
> they are immediately preceded by a consonant. Thus,
> Germany cannot be called {la doitclant.} and the
> Dalai Lama cannot be called {la dalailaman.}
> However, the advantage of the orthodox position is
> that there is no need to place a pause (dot) in
> between the words {doi}, {la}, or {lai} and a
> cmevla. For instance, in the phrase {.i la lojban.
> mo}, there is no pause inbetween {la} and {lojban.}
>
> The so-called Dot Side proposes the opposite rule,
> that the sounds "doi", "la", or "lai" should be
> allowed in cmevla, but every cmevla must always be
> preceded by a dot. Thus one could say {.i la
> .lojban. mo} or {.i la .doitclant. mo} or {.i la
> .dalailaman. mo}.
>
> Please note that, when a cmevla follows any word
> besides {doi}, {la}, or {lai}, both sides agree that
> there must be a pause before the cmevla. For
> instance, everyone agrees that {be'e .andruv.} and
> {mi'e .djan.} are correct.
>
> mu'o mi'e .sen.
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell?
> Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos.






Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell?
Check out new cars at Yahoo! Autos. --0-997332932-1176530605=:17896--