From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Mon Apr 16 10:20:34 2007 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Mon, 16 Apr 2007 10:20:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1HdUs9-00060Y-GS for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Mon, 16 Apr 2007 10:20:24 -0700 Received: from web88010.mail.re2.yahoo.com ([206.190.37.197]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with smtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1HdUr9-0005yH-Ba for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Mon, 16 Apr 2007 10:19:52 -0700 Received: (qmail 19549 invoked by uid 60001); 16 Apr 2007 17:19:02 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=rogers.com; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:Date:From:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Message-ID; b=GwFqxLX/L9A/KepG4vGCzeKFtQMrJKb9QHtlFGK7EQucnL5U7yP072WItcAoeVnUpyqFk6d2AsEvc3Bx98F77fPZL/sZx5RMqEeTZGM5gXyB6wpoLkwV2ctjKfQCF0+Y/haedr539SDGK7ZhhiORUQj21HxFSKwu9D9gfRz9iTw=; X-YMail-OSG: hEEEar0VM1lMiDrYdFiZAnDH2PZ4cg0S05YczROuFIVLvJ_ODEqrexBmJzvEuebr0w-- Received: from [74.96.97.233] by web88010.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 16 Apr 2007 10:19:01 PDT Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2007 10:19:01 -0700 (PDT) From: ANDREW PIEKARSKI Subject: [lojban-beginners] Lojban geography and cultures To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ascii Message-ID: <997837.17964.qm@web88010.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-Spam-Score: -1.7 X-Spam-Score-Int: -16 X-Spam-Bar: - X-archive-position: 4270 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: totus@rogers.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners As I have always been interested in geography and cultures, one of the first things I checked out when first encountering lojban was the lists of languages, countries and religions. Given that unnecessary ambiguity and cultural bias are supposed to be anathema to lojbanists, I was surprised to find certain problems (or misunderstandings on my part?). These are comments rather than questions, but I would love to get some response anyway. RELIGIONS - On a list that even includes a gismu for Taoism, the absence of gismu for one of the world's major religions - Hinduism - is striking. And although Confucianism may not technically be a religion, it should also be there. CULTURES - The gismu "kisto" is given as: x1 reflects Pakistani/Pashto culture/nationality/language in aspect x2 Since 'Pakistani' and 'Pashto' mean something completely different in English, this would seem to be a blatant error. Pakistan is a multilingual, multiethnic country with Urdu as its official language. The Pashtuns (Pashto) are one of its ethnic groups (not even the major one) and have their own language. Furthermore the Pashtuns are a or the major ethnic group of Afghanistan. Surely, the word 'Pashto' should be removed from the definition? - The gismu "xindo" is given as: x1 reflects Hindi language/culture/religion in aspect x2 While this may be technically correct, I notice "xingu'e" as the word for India in one of the lujvo lists (yes, I know they are not official) - clearly derived from this gismu. This could upset a lot of Indians who object to the identification of India with Hindi. Even a fu'ivla or 'la .indias.' would be better but...the world's second most populous country doesn't merit its own gismu or even an acceptable lujvo??? Obviously, some input from Indians (particularly non-Hindi speaking Indians) would be useful, but I see no Indian names on the subscribers lists. - The gismu "jungo" is given as: x1 reflects Chinese [Mandarin, Cantonese, Wu, etc.] culture/nationality/language in aspect x2 Even the dominant and culturally homogenious Han Chinese speak many mutually unintelligable languages. If this gismu refers to all the Chinese languages, how would you refer to 'Chinese' when, as is usually the case, what is meant is Mandarin? Could be quite confusing! I wonder what Chinese lojbanists have to say about this. mu'o mi'e .andrus.