From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Sat Apr 21 08:44:25 2007 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Sat, 21 Apr 2007 08:44:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1HfHl3-0004WH-7v for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Sat, 21 Apr 2007 08:44:18 -0700 Received: from an-out-0708.google.com ([209.85.132.249]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1HfHke-0004Vg-Ed for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Sat, 21 Apr 2007 08:44:10 -0700 Received: by an-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id b8so1226198ana for ; Sat, 21 Apr 2007 08:43:46 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=DvP+GAQz0skz8jusgT0MbJczJyOpoSsPWFB6m2PHEIbQIuY3ylgJCOZ798tW056zyOf5FbK37dulh2CZFrRvYKGxcrIS4f/PvTQKVZPJzuECzWcCalJecEvzuFAdGDzQOZocUzfQt9vzjlB1kNONJ4EuEBuKsM9woskJfo5WuCY= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=JwX4S85C0KpjR16akS4kYL+cq3FCcXKCbi4fFWARYtyd2ZmdjGci3iCOwBbkO04CDZFhSL8EE5GxLbyMK6qlJLuNUjnkM10Jrb5UPJo7/tRkjOV5gIO3mdXiJJhDm8p+XUAYbp4WWKdB4nS0yoH6/GsU1ltKuOYJ/86kp5QyzbQ= Received: by 10.100.144.11 with SMTP id r11mr2443324and.1177170226135; Sat, 21 Apr 2007 08:43:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.100.42.16 with HTTP; Sat, 21 Apr 2007 08:43:46 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <925d17560704210843m163d39dx710fdaf3e2685cea@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2007 12:43:46 -0300 From: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?=" To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: Please review #002 In-Reply-To: <200704202321.15720.phma@phma.optus.nu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <487072.64629.qm@web88003.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <200704202321.15720.phma@phma.optus.nu> X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Score-Int: -25 X-Spam-Bar: -- X-archive-position: 4355 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: jjllambias@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners On 4/21/07, Pierre Abbat wrote: > On Friday 20 April 2007 22:27, ANDREW PIEKARSKI wrote: > > So, Pierre, you're suggesting "ca'o" for "while" and "ca" for "when". But > > in the dictionary, "ca" means "during". Isn't that closer to "while"? > > "ca" means that two events occur at the same time but says nothing about their > duration. One could start when the other ends, or one could be instantaneous, > and it still occurs ca the other one. "ca'o" indicates an ongoing event or > one that takes some time. Yes, but... In this case I think I would go with {ca}. The two events in question are "my mother goes to buy juice" and "Jacob stays home". I would say, for example: la djeikob cu stali le zdani ca'o lo nu lo mi mamta cu klama co te vecnu lo jisra Jacob stayed home while my mother was going to buy juice. {ca'o} there applies to the {stali} event, it says that the Jacob's stay lasted for as long as my mother's going to buy juice (and perhaps longer). Perhaps she asked him to stay so that there would be someone at home while she was out. But applying {ca'o} the other way does not make so much sense to me. It seems to suggest that my mother went to buy juice so as to avoid being at home with Jacob, so that she will stretch her going for as long as Jacob will stay, and won't come back until he leaves. Possible, but not the most likely interpretation of the English without more context. If all we want to do is point out that the two events were simultaneous, then {ca} will do. If we want to say that my mother's going was included within the time-span of Jacob's staying, and keep her going as the main clause, then I would use {co'i}: lo mi mamta cu klama co te vecnu lo jisra co'i lo nu la djeikob cu stali le zdani My mother went to buy juice within the time Jacob stayed home. mu'o mi'e xorxes