From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Sun May 13 12:41:39 2007 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Sun, 13 May 2007 12:41:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1HnJwo-0000Fb-Kg for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Sun, 13 May 2007 12:41:39 -0700 Received: from 25.mail-out.ovh.net ([213.186.37.103]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with smtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1HnJwk-0000FP-Fe for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Sun, 13 May 2007 12:41:38 -0700 Received: (qmail 30073 invoked by uid 503); 13 May 2007 17:50:23 -0000 Received: (QMFILT: 1.0); 13 May 2007 17:50:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail11.ha.ovh.net) (213.186.33.59) by 25.mail-out.ovh.net with SMTP; 13 May 2007 17:50:23 -0000 Received: from b0.ovh.net (HELO queue-out) (213.186.33.50) by b0.ovh.net with SMTP; 13 May 2007 19:41:06 -0000 Received: from 73.174-224-89.dsl.completel.net (73.174-224-89.dsl.completel.net [89.224.174.73]) by ssl0.ovh.net (IMP) with HTTP for ; Sun, 13 May 2007 21:41:06 +0200 Message-ID: <1179085266.464769d236db0@ssl0.ovh.net> Date: Sun, 13 May 2007 21:41:06 +0200 From: m.kornig@sondal.net To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org Subject: [lojban-beginners] Learn to speak Lojban? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) 3.2.6 X-Originating-IP: 89.224.174.73 X-Spam-Score: 0.6 X-Spam-Score-Int: 6 X-Spam-Bar: / X-archive-position: 4455 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: m.kornig@sondal.net Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners Hello everybody, I would like to know: (1) How many people there are approximately who can actually use Lojban for ORAL communication at an A1 level or higher? None? 10? 100? Thousands? (2) Is Lojban meant to be spoken (rather than written or read) at all? (3) Can I learn to SPEAK Lojban from the websites currently provided? Has anyone ever succeeded to do so? (4) And if the answer to (3) is yes: how many hours will it approximately take to achieve oral A1 proficiency in Lojban? Cheers, Martin About the A1 level: I refer to the European frame of reference for language skills (I guess equivalent levels are known in the US and other English speaking countries?). The interesting thing about this reference frame is that it is meant to be kind of universal, i.e. applicable to ANY language (so why not to Lojban?). And, it does not focus on grammar... There is an A0 level where you can produce/understand isolated words (but not phrases or sentences). Things like the numbers 0-10, the days of the week, colors or words like "yes", "no", "perhaps", "thanks", "hello", "sleep", "work", "old", "interesting", "want", "wow!", "I", "you", "Goodbye!", "careful", "beer", "apple" etc. To tell you the truth: my Lojban level is not even A0 at the moment :-( A1 is the next level. It includes A0 (of course) and it requires that the speaker: - can understand and use familiar everyday expressions and very basic phrases/sentences aimed at the satisfaction of needs of a concrete type. Examples of such expressions and phrases would be: "This way please." "I'd like a coffee please." "How are you?" "How much is that?" "It's a quater to three." "Can you repeat that, please?" "Today is Sunday." "I like swimming." "I don't drink alcohol." "Where are the toilets?" "When does the train leave?" "What's this?" "Sorry, I don't understand." "You are good-looking." "Don't go that way." "Sit down please." "Ladies and Gentlemen, ..." "I'd like chicken with rice, please." "Open the black box in the second drawer." "Can you give me a lift to ...?" "Sorry sir, smoking is not allowed here." "Can I use your phone?" "Are you cold?" "I shall need a doctor/go to hospital." "Let's meet in front of the library." "See you tomorrow." "Is it going to rain tomorrow?" "Not at all." "I don't think so." "What the hell do you mean?" It's NOT required to be able to tell/understand what happened in the past or might happen in the future. Nor to talk/understand about a dream, a complex project, an abstract concept, a condition for something to happen, etc. - can introduce him/herself and others and can ask and answer questions about personal details such as where he/she lives, people he/she knows and things he/she has. Examples would be: "What company do you work for?" "I'm in charge of ..." "Are you a hairdresser?" "My address is ..." "What are your hobbies/leisure activities?" "I'm 45." "How tall are you?" "I'm single." "What's your email address?" "I'm married and have three children." "Have you got a dog?" "I'd like to introduce you to ..." "Could you spell your surname, please?" "I live in ... near ..." "Do you speak any other languages?" "Do you know my boss, Mr. ...?" "I like travelling. But I've never been to Asia." "I don't have a driver's licence." "My wife's name is ..." "I love Markus." "Do you play football?" "Yes, I'm very fond of ..." - can interact in a simple way provided the other person talks slowly and clearly and is prepared to help. - and (of course) can do all this spontaneously without consulting any dictionaries, textbooks, notes, etc.